Hello and welcome back for another episode of the Future Ear Radio podcast!
For this week’s episode, I sat down with Daniel Romero, Ph.D. to discuss our takeaways from the recent American Balance Society conference that we attended. Daniel is one of the most knowledgeable vestibular Audiologists I know, so I can’t think of a better person to unpack some the themes from this year’s conference.
Daniel is the co-host of the Vestibular Audiology podcast, A Dose of Dizzy. Daniel and co-host, Liz Fuemmeler, do a fantastic job of exploring the science of vestibular Audiology in a way that’s easy to understand and digest. For those of you who enjoyed this podcast episode, be sure to subscribe to Dose of Dizzy to stay on top of what’s happening in the world of vestibular sciences.
-Thanks for Reading-
Dave
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dave Kemp
All right, everybody and welcome to another episode of the Future Ear Radio Podcast. I am thrilled to be joined today by Dan the man Romero, thanks for coming on today. How you doing, Dan?
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
I love that. I’m doing well. I’m doing well I, for those of who of you who don’t know, me, I am Daniel Romero. I’m an assistant professor at Vanderbilt University. And I’ve been here for almost three years now, which is crazy to think about. But I initially came as a postdoc, and transitioned to faculty, half of my time is really spent doing clinical work. So I see patients half the time of the week, and then the other half is really just expanding the vestibular research program. So I get a little bit of both worlds, and certainly 100% of the steps. So I’m really excited to that, that the vestibular system keeps me going, and the passion is certainly has has led me to this point.
Dave Kemp
That’s very cool. So, you know, I wanted to have you on today, too. We you and I were just at the American balanced society. First time I’ve ever been, really felt like an interloper, just trying to kind of understand what goes on at this meeting. I learned about it through you and Liz Fuemmeler. And although Liz couldn’t make it this year, you welcomed me and brought me into the fold and introduced me to a whole bunch of the vestibular scientists in this industry. And so I was very appreciative of it and thought today, we could just kind of talk through like, you know, as a PhD vestibular audiologist, what stands out in your eyes, from this year’s meeting, you know, whether it’s just new terrain that is starting to be, you know, new new waters being chartered, or kind of advancing some of the existing research, you know, I’ll just kind of be curious to hear from you, of what stood out. So why don’t I kick it to you in either way? Sure.
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
So just to get to kind of give a little background on the actual meeting itself. My first I think I joined my first ABS meeting, American balanced society meeting was around 2016, I was about a second or third year AUD student. This meetings has been going on since about 2009 or so. And really the the fundamental vision for the American balanced society was to not only present research is on the forefront, more specifically, like clinical research that’s on the forefront, but also make it a place where it’s truly multidisciplinary. Anybody working in the stimulator or with Dizzy patients. You realize quickly how multidisciplinary this field is, the patients will see a variety of different specialists, not only audiology, but they’ll see physical therapy, they’ll see EMTs neuro otologist neurologists. And so there’s a lot of hands on on the patient, and trying to manage the patient’s through some of these debilitating dizziness and balance issues that they experience on a day to day basis. And so that was that was essentially the fundamental vision for American bowel society. And it’s really kind of unique in that sense, because a lot of the other meetings are not necessarily as multidisciplinary, there’s a lot of other big meet vestibular meetings that maybe contain a little bit more bench science a little bit more, you know, exploratory type research, but the Meccan balanced society is really, you know, clinically relevant from a multidisciplinary standpoint. So I’ve always loved it from that standpoint, I’ve been attending ever since. And so I would say this year’s meeting was was really, I thought, really nice. It was essentially the first time that the American balanced society was not attached to the much more well known American auditory society. And so for those who who don’t know, either this American balanced society or ABS sort of spawned off of AES and so for years, it would always be held at the same location couple days prior to the big American auditor society Society meeting and this is actually the first year where it’s, it’s sort of independent on its own in that way, so completely different date and location from the American auditory society. And so we still had a pretty nice turnout and that was nice. You see, you know, so many people still interested in coming to this meeting? Yeah, I
Dave Kemp
mean, I felt like it was very well attended lots of, you know, representation from the major hospital systems that have these, you know, large research centers and are kind of on the forefront of that, in addition to a lot of universities, and, you know, kind of their research arms, and then also a number of students. So I felt like it was kind of a nice rounded mix of different sort of vantages. But I felt like the over whelming consensus was like, that, this was a scientific consortium, discussing the stuff that really is kind of at the, at the edges of the scope of practice. So I mean, for me, I would say, I kind of just started to get a, an education in the vestibular side of the profession two years ago, and so I’m still trying to wrap my head around, kind of the basics. But, you know, I felt like when I was kind of trying to absorb what was being presented, a lot of it was around diagnostics, heavy emphasis on pediatric diagnostics, and that kind of new nascent field, but I just found the whole thing to be like, if you are like you, like a PhD researcher, this was an unbelievable, sort of gathering of the the best and the brightest. And I have to imagine for something as specific in niche as something like this, you know, it’s nice to be around a lot of other like minded individuals that understand this as deeply as you do. Right.
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
And, you know, just for anybody out there full disclosure, I do serve on the Board of Directors for the American bounce society. So, you know, I am a little biased, but I’ve always loved, I’ve always loved this, this meeting. And you’re right, I mean, this year’s meeting, I think, three main themes that I sort of took away from this one being the emphasis on pediatric vestibular which I think is only going to grow. For the longest time, the stapler testing was really limited to or we thought was limited to, you know, children, you know, as young as maybe five, but more recent, with more development of the research and more interest in this area, that that what we think is possible with pediatric vestibular testing that that lower limit seems to be decreasing quite a bit. And there we have so many great pediatric vestibular researchers that are working really on the forefront of, of this topic area. And so it’s, it’s certainly nice to see, and it’s great for the profession and to reach a whole other target clinical population that may not be able to, in a traditional sense, may not be able to have access to those, those that type of testing. So that was sort of the first main takeaway. The second is was essentially going to be or what I what I took away was were some of these more convoluted and complex clinical pathways that our patients go through on a day to day basis, which I think is just a huge area, that as a field as a group, we can certainly improve upon, it’s not uncommon for a vestibular patient to see five to seven different specialists before they reach the right one. And so I think advocating for patient outcomes and advocating for improving these referral pathways was certainly one of the the other major things that I think was was kind of scattered throughout the meeting. And then the third one, yeah, the third one, so I did say three. So I’d say ya know, the third one, I would say is probably improving. This, this kind of is evident in not only the clinical side, but the research side. There’s so many different vestibular tests out there and the vestibular system itself is incredibly complex. There’s different ways of testing it. We use different measures to to assess not only how those reflex pathways are, are structurally intact, but how are they affecting In the patient functionally. And so there’s, there’s a whole wide variety of different tests, and depending on who’s testing may only report one or two different tests, or they may, you know, so there’s there’s really not a consistent overlap of the stipulated tests being performed clinically, in addition to those being reported, as part as part of research studies. And so as you can imagine, over the years, that can certainly result in some with basically, depending on what you’re looking at, you may only get one piece of that puzzle. And so there’s not necessarily a standardized reporting or standardized outcome of the similar measures. And so that was sort of the third main theme that I think I took away about us, again, you know, multi interdisciplinary teams coming together to really improve those reporting outcomes.
Dave Kemp
Okay, so let’s, let’s kind of unpack some of this. So the the first one, I’ve touched on this a little bit on the podcast, which is the sort of emergence I guess I would call it of pediatric vestibular diagnostics. Again, for me, this is I’m just speaking from what I know. And the first time I had been exposed to it was, I think, last year when I started to hear people talking about doing like, vamps on babies. And so anyway, it seems like it’s kind of emerging. And, and, you know, I’d say I had two talks that really stand out, I loved yours, and we’ll get to that in a minute. But I really liked the talk from the pediatric audiologist at, I believe it was musc. Her name was an hour. And I think, you know, her her whole premise was like, kind of starting a pediatric vestibular clinic within musc. And she answered a lot of the questions I had in my mind, which was kind of like how do you even sort of establish yourself? A core acquire patients more or less and but more importantly, how do you sort of communicate to the broader medical community of white the role that you’re trying to play? So I’m curious of, you know, from your perspective, like, what was the sort of aha or the breakthrough in terms of why this whole pediatric vestibular diagnostic, you know, services, why has this emerged? And, you know, I guess, like, What was the rationale behind why it didn’t exist prior to that?
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
Right. No. And, you know, I just, again, full disclosure, I am not a pediatric audiologist, and so I you know, there’s certain Eisley some, some some things that I normally have, that I may not be privy to, but certainly from an outsider’s point of view, I think a lot of it has to do with the type of testing over the years are what’s technologically possible nowadays, to obtain some type of vestibular information. And honestly, the the pediatric vestibular researchers that are showing the effects that the stimulator loss can have on a patient’s or a child. You know, not only functional development or gross motor development, but also, you know, how does it affect them socially? How does it affect them academically, and a lot of these researchers that are out there are, you know, it sort of builds an inch, a new revived interest in this area. And so there’s certainly a lot of great researchers that are, you know, putting in the work to not only advance our understanding of the vestibular impairments in children, but also testing and, and and really pushing that limit forward. And so, you know, like one of our, the keynote speaker for this year’s meeting was Dr. Sharon Cushing. And she’s so she’s, you know, in Toronto, Canada, and she’s done this type of work for years and she’s just an amazing individual to listen to. And she was just her work that she’s she’s doing up there is quite outstanding, as well as Nores. You know, development of the pediatric vestibular program. She has a lot of tight connections with Kristen janky at Boystown in that group. And so there’s there’s certainly a lot of great researchers that are that have not only made the case that this is important, but also are right at the forefront to kind of advance our understanding of, of how there’s still a lot to learn about pediatric similar disorders, but certainly there’s there’s so much there and I’ve seen over the last, you know, certainly, you know, five years or so just a really dramatic increase In interest, like I thought the
Dave Kemp
most interesting part of ours, and I apologize if I’m not pronouncing her name, right of her presentation was, you know, this whole, this whole sort of process of like, almost like validating the science and then like her role with the other allied medical professionals. And it was like she was, it was like a Herculean effort to sort of acquire those first patient testimonials. But then as soon as she started to prove out the legitimacy of what she was doing, and I think show how valuable that was to be identifying these different, you know, very, you know, rare or specialty diagnosis is, then the referrals kind of started to pour in, and it like it was it had like this compounding effect, where, you know, with every new patient, it’s sort of triggered another 10 people that that were coming to see her and I thought like, that was so interesting, because it speaks to this notion of like, how big is this, this market more or less in the sense of like, you know, we don’t know, because it’s such a nascent thing that a lot of these, like physicians or whatever medical professional, it is, would never even think, to do that kind of that kind of screening or that, that kind of test. And so it’s like, to start to, you know, see these early case studies of these programs that are getting off the ground. And then as soon as they do to have it almost sort of be so validated that it’s like, wow, we can’t even keep up. We can’t even keep up with this, because we didn’t realize how much demand there was for these kinds of paediatric testing batteries. So I just for me, like that was such a takeaway was, it’s not to say that these these are, you know, like, really obscure kinds of medical divisions within the broader set. I think it’s like so new that we haven’t even fully seen how much of an impact this could all play on the broader scene, which, honestly, I feel is a bit of a microcosm for vestibular audiology in general, which is kind of like, you know, when you when, when it does take root in a community, and it’s well recognized, like a Vanderbilt would be, you know, obviously, the triaging is so much different than a place where it’s like a vestibular desert, right, where they don’t have that. And so you have these other specialists that are sort of assuming that role? And I, again, I think that speaks to like, kind of the the broader point, which is that because of the scarcity, of of this type of medical professional, you know, it’s like, I think there’s way more demand for it in all of its different, you know, I don’t know, in all of its different versions, whether it’s for adults or pediatrics, but so much of it is like, you know, I feel like it’s a microcosm of the point of like, a lack of almost awareness of what this medical professional does.
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
Yeah. And you know, what, I mean, just kudos to her and her team for for developing that. There’s certainly other other programs that have developed at other at other centers, like you know, Boystown, or Cincinnati, children’s, or chop are the, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of senators that are out there. And, you know, for something, and I think a lot of that is just really trying to convince that this is important. And that’s one of probably the biggest challenges, or maybe the more intimidating thing, that that could kind of prevent or slow down the progression of, of starting such a program. But you know, there’s certainly I think, yeah, you’re right. It’s, it’s, it’s a very unique and exciting area of vestibular audiology that is, is taken off. And so it’s, yeah, it’s wonderful to see.
Dave Kemp
So, you know, I wanted to touch on your talk, you know, and if you want to maybe give a little bit of an overview on what all happened, but the theme and the takeaway that I had was, again, it’s kind of along the same vein, which is the notion of like, you know, good is better than nothing. And so, I think that there’s always going to be like a gold standard for a full diagnostic lab that can, you know, basically, very, with high precision, diagnose the problem, but it’s almost kind of like the hearing assessment screening market. You know, it’s like, there’s still a big role for people to have almost like a pass fail, understand, who are the candidates that need to be referred on to, you know, a higher degree of of diagnostics, I guess, and, you know, I feel like you were like that that the trip that you all did into Poland. Really, I think emphasizes this point of like, you don’t need really expensive high end equipment to perform the vestibular equivalent of like a screening. So, you know, again, because of the circumstances of where you guys were and how your setup was, and all that. So do you want to speak a little bit about your trip? And then, you know, kind of like touching on that theme? Yeah,
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
so we we piggybacked on a team that was already going there for, to provide hearing screenings and provide hearing aids to the Ukrainian refugees that are that are currently in Poland. And so we piggybacked on their on their trip twice last year, because we did find a need that a lot of these refugees were experiencing dizziness and balance problems. And so we went over there, we had very limited equipment, basic V, and G goggles. And then we had some V hit goggles, or video head impulse test goggles, where we could identify some impairments, and I think, building, you know, almost like an I don’t know, an enhanced bedside screening protocol that could identify, we definitely caught, you know, cases of BPPV, we caught cases of peripheral impairments, we’ve definitely saw some, some central cases. And so putting that together with Joe with just talking to the patient and putting case histories, we were able to kind of identify a lot of a lot of these. And so certainly, yeah, one of the things, this was one of the talks that I presented and, and, you know, also acknowledging that, yes, this is unlimited evaluation, but I will say there are gold standard tests that we use to diagnose these things. But even and this was brought up at the meeting, even these gold standard tests, if the testing is normal, that doesn’t necessarily mean the vestibular system is not affected. You know, the some, even our best tests may miss some underlying impairments. And so, you know, there’s, there’s certainly I think, international need as well, as, you know, obviously, a domestic need for vestibular testing, there’s, you know, patients that obviously can’t get to a medical center, that may not have health insurance that may not be mobile, or may have come, you know, may or may have been more low income communities. And so this type of trip is just one way of just, you know, kind of igniting or starting the conversation about, you know, perhaps, yes, that is not a standard vestibular assessment, but could be used to possibly go to a patient and provide some type of screening and, and some type of information or management for them. You know, obviously, if you’re providing some type of follow up care, or if you bring, let’s say, a physical therapist or something like that. And so that’s certainly a way that some of these patients can get some access to some of these services. And so that was a great experience. And so we’re service we’re continuing to follow up with with these patients and possibly gone back later this year.
Dave Kemp
Yeah, I mean, again, I think that if you can, like, like you said, there’s, there’s like domestic implications of, of what you all did, which is, again, I think, as far as I am, as far as I know, like, I know, within the group that you went with that organized this trip with King Chun and all that, then this was the first time you guys had done sort of like a vestibular offering, but I’m not sure. I’m sure there might be examples, but I’ve not really heard of anybody doing these types of humanitarian trips and having a vestibular screening assessment kind of offering in there. And, again, I think that it’s because the, I think there might be like a preconceived notion that that’s not doable in a setting like this. And yeah, it’s kind of like proved wrong.
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
Yeah, I think I think it’s, it’s certainly unheard of, and the fact that we were able to go over there and treat at least one person with BPPV and fix their issue in a few minutes. I think that provides all the justification that I need, you know. And yeah, we don’t necessarily think about it in this way. And, yes, it’s not perfect, and there’s certainly things that could be improved upon thought about differently. Absolutely. You know, I don’t claim to have all of that figured out, but if it starts that conversation about okay, what we thought vestibular testing was only possible this way. Now, okay, well, let’s see if it opens Is the conversation about possibly going to the patient and doing this type of testing? Then? Okay, does that open the possibility of more patients being helped? Or maybe help the ones that are falling through the cracks? Then, you know, certainly then I’ve done my job if it starts that conversation in that way, a certain event than that, I’m happy. Yeah,
Dave Kemp
no, I think it’s really cool. Like, again, I think you’ve proven that, at least, some of these things that maybe were considered to be non starters are not as big of a deal tractor, I guess, is as it was initially thought. So I’m with you, I think it’ll be interesting to watch as this kind of continues to evolve. You know, again, now, going back to the three kind of key takeaways that you had, in that second bucket where you said, I believe it was like clinical pathways. One of the things that I kind of took away was this whole dynamic. And so I don’t know if it falls into that category, but this whole dynamic of the, the audiologists, and the different professionals that you’re working alongside, like you said, a lot of different medical professionals are kind of interacting with this patient. And it seemed like that one of the themes was sort of, you know, kind of like, people working through that dichotomy, I guess, or that relationship with these other medical professionals, and then maybe better understanding how to interact with them or the right, in the right instances, I guess, in those clinical pathways as to when it’s appropriate for the audiologist to like, intervene, or to then hand it off to someone else. So can you speak to that a little bit about, you know, like, again, their relationship with say, the the physical therapists or the occupational therapists like, Were there times throughout this meeting, where maybe some of your thinking was adjusted in terms of like, how you would be working with those kinds of allied professionals? Yeah,
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
and, you know, I think, I think each professional has has something to add. And certainly audiology is valuable, in, you know, identifying some of the structural impairments that may be explaining a whole variety of different symptoms that a dizzy patient may experience, and really providing that objective data. And then obviously, I mean management and working with patients functionally these the physical therapists have a similar PTS are absolutely invaluable. And so they’re, they’re rehabbing these patients the entire way through and I think it really depends, it’s so specific on the, on the specific institution, that, you know, patients may end up with physical therapists, first, they may end up with audiology first, if they’re getting referred in, or a lot of that really has to do with who’s referring the patient. So, you know, if they end up with en ti first, or they may likely end up with audiology first, or if, you know, if somebody’s underwent a concussion, and they’re being referred by neurology, they may send them directly to PT first to try to really get them back to a point where they can return to play if they’re a sports, if athlete or something like that. And so there’s certainly I think, a lot of it likely has to do with the population, there may not be one single protocol that can be applied to every single patient, but it likely not only depends on on the resources that your institution has, but also the the patient that you’re seeing. And so if setting those protocols and developing those protocols, that can be implemented at a maybe larger scale, depending on you know, what type of patient is walking through your door, perhaps that protocol can can and can improve or reduce those. Those number of visits that patients are experiencing on average, and obviously, it’s a it’s a huge healthcare burden, not only, you know, it’s not only on the quality of life of the patient, obviously, but also financially. Yeah, I
Dave Kemp
mean, again, I think that that was sort of a testament to the, the, you know, the, like, maturation of this segment is that it’s not fully fleshed out, they’re still trying to kind of work through, you know, like, again, the the role and how they fit into this, like, broader ecosystem, I think is really interesting to watch. And that then leads me to where I’m seeing a lot of this coalesce is with concussions. And so you know, man, I wish Liz was here right now because I know there’s an hour this is, that’s her wheelhouse, right in her wheelhouse. But I find this to be so interesting. Because, you know, in the span of time that when I really started to understand this from Liz, which is probably like a year or two ago, it just seems like there’s been more and more momentum, I talked to two different people that were saying that they’re now sort of in this new role that’s like, the concussion audiology special specialist. And so again, I think that what’s so interesting is how, you know, these kinds of things, they, they sort of take on these forms, as the science kind of continues to progress. And it’s like, it’s like, market economics mixed with science, where for I think, in this space, it’s like very apparent that there is a kind of this like, need for somebody to play this role. That’s not a neuroscientist, it’s, it’s something that works adjacent to that. And again, like with something like concussions, where it’s not a new thing, but all of the new attention that’s been given to better understand it, I think, has really sort of put audiology in this very interesting position where it’s like, because of the equipment, and how it can be dual purpose towards some of these different diagnostic tests that are highly relevant for for concussion, it is kind of right place, right time. But at the same time, I feel like the audiology community is now seizing this as like, a really good opportunity to again, put themselves in a higher level playing field with the other medical professionals sort of that are all interacting with these kinds of patients. So I felt like and I’d be curious, just to hear from you, like it just seems like that’s a specific niche within this niche that’s really starting to heat up. Yes.
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
And it’s almost like, you know, we talked about all of these obviously, limitations and things that we still haven’t figured out in the regular vestibular community. And yet, on top of that, is now a TBI community that can be much more varied, much more complex. And so it’s almost like, you know, professionals are being forced to or working with these patients. And yet, it’s almost like the, the research is not too far ahead of what clinicians are doing clinically. Because these patients are coming in through their doors, and we need some type of, they need some type of help. And so, you know, there’s certainly a lot of fundamental questions that I think exist with, you know, how vulnerable is the team is the vestibular system in, in traumatic brain injury and some of those, those more fundamental questions and how does it recover and and just the interactions between the vestibular system and non vestibular systems or cognition? You know, a lot of there’s there’s so much there that still has to be fleshed out. But yet, we’re, you know, we’re, it’s still equally important to us what we have to provide some answers and some objective data for the patient as well as the the referring provider who may be the the main professional that is that is outlining their plan of care, the patient’s plan of care. And so certainly, there’s there’s there’s a lot to be learned. But there’s a lot to be, there’s a lot currently happening. And there’s a lot to be gained, with with audiologists getting into working with patients with TBI, incredibly complex area, but certainly the the testing that we do, can can provide a lot of information not only, especially if you’re doing a lot of functional testing to see if you’re not only looking at the structural integrity of these reflex pathways, but how is it affecting them functionally, there’s certainly a lot of data to suggest that these functional vestibular tests are much more valuable, especially in this population specifically.
Dave Kemp
Very cool. Okay. So as we kind of come to the close, the last point that I felt like should be mentioned that very much ties into some of the conversations that have been had on the podcast recently is the sort of emergence or the inch the rising interest among students around the vestibular sciences. So it was really kind of apparent here again, that you know, there were lots of students at this conference relative to the size of it. And you know, every one of the students that I had a chance to talk to, was sort of reiterating this point which is, I mean, I think you have to have some sort of disposition, or that might be the right word deposition disposition toward, like the vestibular sciences and be interested in this stuff. But I find it really interesting that a lot of the people that I’ve a lot of the students that I’ve talked to very much are looking at the long term prospects as an audiologist, and seemingly understanding that there is maybe job security in this, this niche, which I don’t know if I feel like it’s as you know, if I’m comparing the two, if it’s two things, I’m comparing, like, people that are pursuing the non vestibular path and just more of a general path, even the general path seems to sort of emphasize this with a lot of students saying they want to work in hospitals, and they want to work in the VA, they want to work in settings, where maybe there’s more of a focus on the medical side of things, and not as much on the sales side of things. So it could just be consistency with all of this, but I just find this to be very interesting, talking to students and hearing why they’re getting into this space is a resounding sort of, like, I’m doing this because it feels like one of the safer paths for me, right?
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
I mean, that’s, that’s totally, totally true and accurate. I mean, I when I was, when I was just getting into this as an undergrad, I’m and then early on in my grad program, you know, I was pretty much the only one that may, I assume, was interested in vestibular, and that that was that was pretty consistent. There were very few it’s like the dark, you know, dark corner of audiology is vestibular and so there’s there, there wasn’t many. But even in just a short amount of time, since I’ve been out of school, there’s so many I feel as though there’s there’s so much new interest in some in the students. And a lot of that, I think, is just demystifying what vestibular testing is. And, you know, it’s not necessarily this big, bad, scary thing. It’s certainly doable. And, you know, even if you if you live in if you don’t want to see, do do vestibular testing, you know, you’re a general, you know, you’re kind of well rounded audiologists, but you want to focus more on the hearing side, you’re going to see a dizzy patient of dizzy patient is going to come through your door. It’s not only one of the most commonly associated things, but sensor know hearing loss, but you know, there’s, there’s a, there’s a whole huge aging population that is at risk for falling. And vestibular impairment is an independent risk factor for it. So there’s, it’s almost like you can’t get away from it. So it’s gonna, it’s gonna, you’re gonna have to interact with a dizzy patient at some point and having those skill sets to be able to provide that additional value to not only your audiology practice, but also to a lot of these referring providers, you know, and to be able to prevail, but provide a whole new referral pathway is certainly great. And but yeah, with regard to the students, I love working with students, and I love hearing that more students are becoming more and more interested in this and says vestibular audiologists, educators, teachers, we really have to foster that development and that curiosity and really be able to embrace that curiosity that these students have about about the vestibular system and also point them in the right direction. If you know if you’re not fully equipped to provide that to the student, you know, there’s certainly a lot of great vestibular audiologists across the country that love working with students and now are being able to train students to not only specialize in vestibular science as a post AUD grad, but also, you know, even if you’re interested in a PhD in vestibular, there’s, there’s now growing areas and places to go.
Dave Kemp
Yeah, I mean, again, I find this to be very interesting to sort of see where the future is moving toward and I, you know, in this instance, obviously, I’m referring to the labor of the industry, but I do find this to be something that kind of continues to get reinforced that every single one of the different trade shows I go to, which is that it seems like there’s a rising interest in within the student body in the next wave of audiologist to become not necessarily just specialists, but also just more well rounded and have a have a pretty good grasp of the, you know, how it all works in and then again, I totally agree with you that there’s so much crossover and so, you know, I one of the most recent episodes I just did, we had a whole conversation about, you know, kind of like, you know, with students in particular in like coming out of school and and then, you know, on one hand, you’re sort of faced with this potential scenario where the industry and the profession of audiology gets disrupted and on the hearing healthcare side with the, you know, the treatment of hearing aids and all that. But then on the other hand, you have this nascent niche of audiology that has sort of been relegated for a long time. But now, I think, because of what’s happening, and all of these external threats for the sort of traditional, you know, audiology mod, you know, halfway. It’s just like, it’s kind of like a, you know, a pendulum and it’s swinging back. And it’s kind of like, okay, like, maybe we should focus on being entirely well rounded as a means for differentiation with the hearing aids. So anyway, I, I could, I kind of go on and on about that all the time. But it just is, it’s just really interesting to kind of find out from these things with, like, empirical evidence of people coming up and being like, you know, I’m talking to five students, and they’re all basically saying that, like, I, you know, I want to make sure that I’m, I’m protecting my, my future, and I feel like this pathway is a little bit more secure. So I just find that to be pretty interesting. Yeah, it’s great. So, on that note, any closing thoughts? Where can people connect with you? Yeah.
Daniel Romero, Ph.D.
Ya know, any anybody interested in learning more, or from a student perspective, some of our training opportunities, you know, I love I love connecting with students, and certainly at least pointing you know, questions about who you could work with in your area or anything like that. Certainly, don’t hesitate to reach out there’s, you can reach me out at vumc.org. Any, graduating soon to be graduating, AUD students interested in an additional fellowship year in vestibular science, where you’ll get more clinical experience, as well as some clinical research experience while we do have a fellowship program here at Vanderbilt? And so feel free to contact me if that’s something that’s interesting to you. I know. There are also other centers that have fellowship programs, Cleveland Clinic, I believe, as well as musc. So excellent centers, excellent people out there. So you know, we’re not the only one, there’s certainly other centers that do have that. So there is that opportunity to get some additional training. So again, yeah, feel free to reach out about about any to me or anything about the stapler at any point. Awesome.
Dave Kemp
Well, thanks again, Daniel, for coming on today. Thanks for everybody who tuned in here to the end. We will chat with you next time. Cheers.
