Hello and welcome back for another episode of the Future Ear Radio podcast!
For this week’s episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Emilie Vos, a recent Audiology grad, about why she decided to become an Audiologist here in 2024 and how she thinks the profession will evolve over the course of her career.
During our conversation, Emilie and I discuss:
– Her backstory, personal experience with a loved one’s hearing loss and dementia, and the serendipity surrounding her path to Audiology
– Entering into Audiology energized about the direction the field of science is heading (closer to the brain)
– “The Big Onion” patient experience and the value of providing a holistic approach with each patient
– Earning her Au.D. at Nova Southeastern, her mentors, and identifying which facets of Audiology she wanted to focus on
– Her residency at Weill Cornell and rounding out her skillset with as much specialty hands-on experience as possible
– Endlessly learning and seeking out challenging scenarios to grow from and invest in oneself
– Emilie’s perspective on personal brand building and how she envisions using social media throughout her career
It’s fascinating to hear what motivates a young professional like Emilie to pursue a career as an Audiologist and why she believes the best days of the profession are ahead of it. To her, the future of the profession is exciting, and I can’t help but agree.
-Thanks for Reading-
Dave
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dave Kemp
Okay, everybody and welcome to another episode of the Future Ear Radio Podcast. I am very excited to be joined today by Dr. Emilie Vos. So Emilie, thanks for coming on the podcast. How are you doing today?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
I’m good! Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Dave Kemp
Absolutely. So I happened to meet you at the the ASHA convention in Boston, you made a very funny joke, you came by my booth and pointed out that I’m David Kemp, and that there’s another David Kemp in the industry, who is, you know, much more. He’s more intelligent and remarkable David Kemp, I would say the one that, you know, discovered the otoacoustic emission. But anyway, you know, it was great to kind of like, connect with you and just learn about you and what, how you came into this space. And I wanted to have you on because, you know, as a recent graduate, one of the most newly minted audiologists out there, I wanted to get your perspective of like, you know, not only how did you kind of come into this space, but how you as a young person are seeing the opportunity, if you will, and how you’re kind of seeing this whole industry and this profession moving into the future and why you chose to pursue this. So why don’t we go back to the beginning and you can share how you came to be an audiologist?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Absolutely. So I’m originally from Toronto, Ontario, I went to a university called Western University, it’s in London, Ontario. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, or how my future would unfold. But I was very interested in health. And I was also very interested in business. So I applied to do business and health and kind of got into both, but then I kind of stuck more with the general healthcare sciences. We had this project, I think it was in my third year of my undergraduate degree where we had to do a presentation and an infographic on some health related profession that we do not think about. So I had kind of delved into the field of optometry that really interested me. But I obviously knew what that was. So I came across Audiology, I was like, What is this, this is health related, it’s not music related. And I kept doing more and more research for this presentation. And it just really appealed to me. It was so different than anything else I had heard of. So I started kind of asking people around, I had a friend actually, who told me that she had a family friend who was an audiologist and loved her job. She’d studied in the States. And she told me about the degree. And then all these other things kept happening. So I was with my grandfather, we were at a family gathering, I kind of noticed he was becoming more isolated, wasn’t engaging in the conversation as much as he used to. And he developed dementia that led to Alzheimer’s, he ended up getting his hearing tested. And he had a significant amount of hearing loss, it was age related. So he got hearing aids, but he couldn’t wear the hearing aids because of his dementia. So he’d put them in the laundry machine or he lose them. So he really wasn’t wearing them at all. So kind of led me to think maybe there’s a correlation between untreated hearing loss and cognitive decline. So that was always really in my forefront after discovering what audiology was, and then seeing my grandfather’s trajectory. And to kind of top everything up, I did a study abroad in Singapore at the National University out there. And we did a public health course, where we actually had the opportunity to go to India and see how their healthcare systems were operating and working out there. I remember asking one of the doctors on staff, if they had any audiologist and he said, No, unfortunately, we have a very small team here. And we don’t have any hearing health professionals and that tool really stuck with me and made me realize okay, this, this is what I need to do. I want to a see if there’s a correlation between cognitive decline and auditory deprivation and then to someday work abroad and try to bridge that gap between access and providing hearing healthcare globally.
Dave Kemp
a lot of very interesting things you just said there. So wait, let me understand this correctly. The way you sort of decided or I guess like the impetus of everything was like a undergrad project that you just so happened to decide that you were going to like learn more about the field of audiology?
Literally Yes,
That’s hilarious. That’s amazing. Okay, so what what about it was so interesting to you, was it just that you didn’t really know about it and that it was a Like what intrigued you about it? Honestly,
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
I remember making a little photo of the world and how many people had hearing loss. And I couldn’t believe it, because I never really felt like I was taught on hearing loss or as a child, I never really went to go get my ears tested. So I was kind of baffled with the fact that there was all these people in the world with hearing loss. But I didn’t really know anything about hearing loss. So I think that’s what really stuck with me. Right
Dave Kemp
is the scale of it. And I know that’s kind of been one of those things like, no pun intended, I guess it’s a silent epidemic. And I think that it’s one of those things that, like I just had on the other show that I do. I had David Ryan on who is a, he is a doctor who is like, basically a public health expert. And he works for the National Opinion Research Center. And he and his team just compiled what’s called the soundcheck map. And basically what they showed was they mapped the pervasiveness of hearing, loss of bilateral hearing loss to the county level in the US. And it’s just really, really interesting to see not just the overall pervasiveness of hearing loss, but to kind of break it out and see like, it’s actually really, there’s a disparity between like rural and urban. And I find this to be just one of those things that as somebody that’s in this industry, in this space, where it’s constant, you’re sort of around it all the time, you know, the severity and the scale of the problem. But it is one of those things where it just blows my mind in the US healthcare model that you go to the physician, and you get your hearing, or you get your eyes tested, you weight, blood pressure, all that in hearing is completely not part of that whole equation. And so it’s like, there’s so much opportunity to make this part of the broader, you know, kind of like healthcare scene, because to your point, like as what we’re we’re really learning, I think through you know, some of these hunches are becoming validated like the achieve trial, from Johns Hopkins, that’s really starting to kind of link the, the fact that untreated hearing loss could have some really negative add on effects like cognitive decline and all that. And so here you are, kind of entering into this profession, right, as some of this new information and research is being validated. So given your personal history with your grandfather, like how do you think about that, is that one of the biggest motivating factors for you is that not only are you excited to be an audiologist, but what a great time given kind of like the current state of where the medicine is going, I guess, right?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Absolutely. I feel like, because I’ve been touched personally, in terms of what happened to my grandfather, it’s almost easier for me to resonate with other people, or to provide that level of education that, okay, this is actually real, this could be real. There’s so much research that keeps coming up that there is kind of a cause and effect. And the longer you’re not stimulating your senses, the more auditory deprivation that you have, it can, unfortunately lead to that and seeing that firsthand. I feel like, it’s hard. It’s sad. And I still think every day, I wish I could have done something sooner, maybe if I was an audiologist, before he had dementia, I could have saved my grandfather’s life. So I think in that way, it definitely makes me feel very, very empathetic. And I want to help as many people as it can. So that doesn’t happen to them or their family members.
Dave Kemp
I mean, I think that like a lot of the theme of this podcast over the past couple years has just kind of been like the conversation has revolved around this idea of like, Where does the audiologist in particular go, as time continues to move on? And like, what’s the role and and where can they be of most value in the value added chain? And, you know, I think that for a long time, there’s always been, there’s just because of sort of the availability of hearing aids, it’s always just made the most sense financially for them to primarily focus on amplification treatment. And I think that, you know, like, what’s really kind of interesting is that, as more of this research comes out, it just kind of like begs to the question of, like, you know, there’s going to have to be so much diagnosis of, you know, the, there’s just gonna have to be so much more conversation about what’s going on in this whole anatomy of your body that goes beyond the ear. It’s, it’s a brain disorder, right? And so, I feel like that almost convergence of like, the Auditory Sciences and then like, the neuroscience sciences are really kind of blending together. Does that feel exciting or overwhelming to you knowing that you’re almost going to have to probably dabble in in, at least to some, some capacity in like neuroscience.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Right now, I honestly find it very exciting. I think hearing health is so fascinating. And there’s a lot going on with the brain to go that we learned about in neuroscience in school and, you know, educating yourself. After graduating, when you’re looking in terms of tinnitus, and cognition, I think it’s super, super, super exciting. Definitely can be, I feel like stressful, potentially down the line. I did some work with cognitive you. And doing cognitive screening, which I find very fascinating. And I think that’s something that’s been added to a lot of people’s test batteries to see if there is kind of an improvement between untreated hearing loss and treating someone’s hearing loss, and then their scores on the cognitive you. But it’s one of those things yet again, that we don’t know what happened first, right?
Dave Kemp
Right.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Is someone just going to get dementia, regardless of you know, their choices in their life? Or if they do have hearing loss? Will they get dementia ever? If they do have hearing loss, they never get dementia? It’s so hard I feel like to pinpoint. But I think with technology, AI, and all these new innovations coming into market, at some point, there’ll be a way for audiologist to be trained to do more than the ear and potentially focus a little bit more on the brain.
Dave Kemp
Yes, and I mean, I’m with you on that. And I guess, it’s just really cool to hear somebody young, that’s coming into this workforce. That’s saying that’s a acknowledging that, and then also excited about it. Because I think that, you know, one of the, one of the facts, I guess, of the current state of the market is you just have a lot of generationally speaking business owners from from older generations that have a different sort of, they’ve just been conditioned differently as to what that patient experience looks like. And I think that what we’re kind of seeing is, like, a lot of the data suggests that those patient interactions are probably going to change to have more involvement of this holistic view of what’s going on. I mean, you know, I think we’re learning that there’s just so many different variables that could be influencing all of these different things. So you have, you know, the medicines and the ototoxicity element of it, the diet, the the environments that people are living in, you know, some of these other like, smoking, whatever it might be, and then, you know, you factor in something like, can you modify some of these different things like with the hearing aid, so I just look at this, and I say, on one hand, it’s got to be almost intoxicating, because everything almost sort of says that things are going to change in a way where you’re going to actually probably be tasked with, with a larger role if you really want to succeed, by helping to kind of tell this whole holistic story and being more integrated into that, all the different points of contact that that comes with. But I just, I can see how that could also be like, this isn’t what I signed up for. So you have to have the right mentality, I feel like to kind of almost get into this space these days.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Right? And I think too, it’s so important to take into account someone’s lifestyle, I think any health provider, whether you specialize in the IRS or the eyes, you’re doing that case history, but you’re not only doing case history, in terms of what’s going on medically. But you also want to know, who is your patient? What do they do? Where do they have difficulty? Are they becoming more isolated socially? Because they can’t hear as well? Do they don’t hang out with people as much? Because they’re asking for repetition? Are they getting this potential cognitive decline? Because they’re not having their senses stimulated? Or is it because they’re not hanging around other people? Are they taking a medication everyday that actually causes ringing in the ears or hearing loss? I think looking at the person as a whole is just so important, because you can’t really assess someone or make a recommendation to an individual if you don’t have the whole picture.
Dave Kemp
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And again, like this theme of what does the future of the audiologist look like? I mean, that’s, that’s a far cry from, you know, just the notion that you go in and you get fit with a hearing aid. I mean, that seems very transactional. And something that’s almost a commodity, a commodity experience, whereas what you’re describing would entail a longer patient visit. And just more effort, I think, to sort of surface all of these different things and then like, have like an efficient way to manage that so that you have like a really good patient log of all this information. Which again, though, is I think the opportunity. I mean, like that’s such a differentiated experience, versus something that feels more commodity in the in the mind of the patient or the consumer, it’s like they know they’re going in and they have a preconceived notion of what they’re going to come out with, I’m gonna get a hearing aid. But like, here, I think it’s a different, it’s a different thing where you’re saying, like, I’m actually looking to get to the root of what’s going on. With the disorders of all this. It’s a more medical approach, more or less. And
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
I think to like, somehow incorporating that kind of training, like a course or an extra study where it gives us the, the credibility or the credentials to say, okay, maybe you’re having this issue, because say, you’re not drinking enough water, maybe you have this issue, because you’re stressed, and you’re not getting enough sleep, something where we can, you know, look at the patient as a whole, but then also provide them with guidance, that doesn’t just apply to their hearing help. So the way I kind of like to think about it, and where I see things going is, you get your patient from the waiting room, you look at them as this big onion, and they come into your room, you have no idea who they are. They’re just they’re there, they have the saran wrap, they’ve just bought that from the grocery store, you start asking them questions, okay, you take the saran wrap off, you ask them another question, it leads to another, by the end of the appointment, you have all these layers of your onion that’s completely peeled off, and you just have the very center. And that’s really, I think, the core of the patient, they might be crying, they might be sharing something with you, that actually gives you a reason as to why you think they’re experiencing this problem. And then you uncover all these things, and then they leave feeling like a that they’ve been heard their providers listening to them, but then you might even have a better solution because you really know what’s going on. So I think that down the line, it might take us more time to find the root of someone’s issue, whether it’s vestibular related or hearing related, but I think it’s so much more worthwhile. And it’ll really add some credibility to our field, because we’re not just having a patient come in, do the hearing test, and then sending them and referring them elsewhere without really knowing who they are. Yeah,
Dave Kemp
I couldn’t agree more. That’s a great way to think about it. So with, you know, like you just said there, distributor testing, you know, it’s just kind of a full battery of diagnostics. And that could change, like you mentioned cognitive you like, you know, maybe cognition screening becomes part of that battery. I don’t know yet. Like, I don’t know what, I think it’s just such a nascent thing of screening for cognition. And who’s the right medical professional for that? Is the audiologist appropriate for that? I personally don’t know the answer to that. But I think it’s a really healthy thing for the profession to kind of be working through these things and being open to these ideas. So when you were, you said that you were at Western, you kind of like, stumbled across audiology? How did you decide to go in and go to school at Nova Southeastern.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
So after, everything kind of was in line, the stars were aligned. I started looking at different programs. In my fourth year, I was like, This is what I’m doing. I want to go live in the US I want to get my ad. In Canada, you get your Masters of audiology, it’s two years after whatever undergrad you get, you don’t really need to specialize in anything. And I was like, I want to get my ID. I had read a lot about it. I wanted to have a lot of experience and kind of do something different as well live somewhere where I never lived. So I applied to different universities. At the time, I think you have to write your GRE. I don’t know if you still have to, but I wrote the GRE and then applied. I actually remember I think it was in a health policy class. I got the email from Nova, saying congratulations, you’ve been accepted into our program. We’ve kind of jumped a little I was so excited. And I was like, this is this is it. I felt like the calling it was a sign they were the first to accept me so i i decided to go and then from there I went straight to Nova Southeastern in Fort Lauderdale from Toronto. So I moved completely by myself started the program out there and I loved it
Dave Kemp
it was it was awesome. That’s that’s that’s quite the change Toronto to Miami. Whether I was a yeah weatherwise that’s a pretty good change. Um, okay, but that’s really interesting. So you you you then you go and you enroll in Nova What was that period of life like for you and what what stands out to you in terms of curriculum classes that you really like gravitated toward or subfields within audiology, professors, mentors, any of that stuff? What What kind of do you brings to mind you know, with that stuff?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Yeah, honestly, it feels nice to reflect I’ve done these times because it feels like it was just yesterday. But it also feels like it was forever ago. I was definitely very nervous and scared because I had traveled I had studied abroad as I mentioned earlier, but I was like moving my life somewhere with no one around. So I was I was nervous. I knew that this was going to be a rigorous program. So I just really wanted to make sure I was prepared for everything. So I remember I kind of vividly remember the first day, we were all just sitting in a classroom, no one was talking to each other. And everyone was just staring at the presentation of all the professor’s introducing themselves and talking about the program. I became friends with the girl next to me, I met one of my classmates in the restroom. And the rest is kind of history. I just remember, I was working super hard. I definitely a type A individual and kind of a perfectionist. So I really wanted to do well. The average passing, you had to get 80% in every class above 80% In every class. So that was definitely a huge motivator because I didn’t want to, you know be held back or feel out after having moved and really wanting to have this career. So I would go to the library a lot. I sat at the front row and all my classes. All these questions. I was that student. Some people like to call me a brown noser. But I
Dave Kemp
didn’t get to say it.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
But no, I’d say that the first year I can’t even really remember the curriculum, but it was very much I think introductory classes to everything audiology. It was set up very well. I think they did a fantastic job. Some of my favorites, I’d say I really liked anatomy. I love the science behind hearing. electrophysiology was very interesting. I love to doing hands on lab work. And that was definitely at the start nerve wracking because you’re learning all these things on PowerPoint presentations, then all of a sudden, you’re taught to look in an ear or put something in someone’s ear, run a temp for the first time and do an AVR and somebody so that was really fun. Also stressful doing something for the first time never had been done before a totally different feel from textbook to in person. And yeah, it was over the course of time we started touching upon this step, which I really loved. I thought it was super fascinating. Kind of like what one of your guests, Tish Gaffney mentioned how this did was like a puzzle piece. And that kind of sold me from the get go because you have all these different symptoms from a patient. And then you have to uncover them and figure out how one thing connects to another by looking at their their case history, but also looking at their vestibular results and kind of putting everything together. So I really enjoyed this step. It was a question I thought was very interesting. Yeah, it was, it was great. I definitely enjoyed my experience.
Dave Kemp
That’s great that that’s great that they gave you hands on experience like that. Because I do think that there’s a huge difference of reading about it in a textbook. And then, you know, especially with some of the like sub specialty stuff, the sense I get is that if you don’t really ever get that hands on experience, the more time that goes on, the more that you sort of feel like you’re like nobody really, I don’t know, it just seems like it would personally I would feel like I’d have to be pretty humble to be like, Hey, I actually don’t know how to do this. And you know, you have to be kind of like there’s a lot of humility that comes with that. So I think it’s very important early on for the next wave of professionals to get as much hands on experience as possible. So that a they can both find what they really like within the field, but also that they have they at least have a semblance of like, here is how you go about performing this type of procedure or whatever that might be. I don’t know, I just I think that’s really, really important to have that kind of hands on experience.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
I couldn’t agree more, I think to this, Deb especially, we were very fortunate to have a professor who has that kind of as her niche. And we had so much hands on experience, and I did her Dr. Gaffney. I did her vestibular specialties course which was amazing because it was just three students and her really learning how to do the hit and doing it on patients having her observe us. We got to see easy hands. Yeah, it was, and I don’t think I would have truthfully loved this step. The way I do if I didn’t have that experience because honestly, truth be told learning it from a textbook and just PowerPoint slides. It’s very challenging. challenging topics. So having a phenomenal professor who teaches it in a fun way, makes the biggest difference. And also being able to see how it’s done in clinic is much different than what you experienced in the classroom. Right. So I think that definitely made me have a keen interest in this tip. Neuroscience, I really liked that class as well, as we kind of touched on before I just find anatomy and anything that has to do with the brain and the ear super interesting. We had a very interesting pathologies course, where we kind of did different zoom into different symptoms of what a patient might say, and then compare them to test results to be able to find exactly what if ecology is, and I think that will carry over for the rest of my professional life, because I can see something now and say, Oh, it could actually be this. So totally, that’s something I have a huge appreciation for as well. I
Dave Kemp
mean, just to kind of stick on this point, huge shout out to Dr. Gaffney, previous guest on the podcast, but like that is so cool to hear that you get that kind of hands on level of mentorship. And, I mean, I feel like I keep kind of making this point, every episode. So people are probably rolling their eyes right now. But like, God, like if I were in your shoes, that is an unbelievable skill set to develop in this industry. Because there’s not only a shortage of audiologists, there’s 100%, a shortage of specialty audiologists that know how to do some of the sub specialty stuff. So for you, like you just set yourself up so well for your whole career by obtaining that type of subject matter expertise that you can use in like have for the rest of your life. That’s an investment basically, that you made that I think is so wise for young people to be thinking along those lines of like, How can I basically make myself as valuable to the work to like future employers and in the marketplace, basically as possible?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
And that’s truthfully how I see learning like, it’s, you’re investing yourself? Why not make the most of your experience? If you have an opportunity to learn from someone or take a course? Or take something extra? Even though it might take you more time? Or? Why not? I think that’s probably the best that you could do for yourself. Do
Dave Kemp
you I mean, like, where you’re at now. I mean, you’re that’s, I think that a really awesome approach is to be a constant learner, and to be always challenging yourself. Another theme on the podcast has been all about that is like, you know, I think that, if I have any advice for somebody that’s just getting started out, is do that is like just kind of put yourself in a position where you’re always challenging yourself, and also always growing your network. I think that putting yourself in positions where you’re, you’re going to increase your own like surface area of luck and serendipity of meeting the right person opening the right door. And then as you’re kind of just acquiring more skill sets along the way, you make yourself more valuable. And you can get ahead in life, I think just simply by having that mentality. I mean, you’re a testament to that you’re already doing a lot with as young as you are. I mean, it sounds like you’ve really absorbed a lot of information in a short amount of time. Consider, I mean, when did you enroll in Nova?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
So it was four years ago? I’d say, yeah, for almost five years ago.
Dave Kemp
That’s a lot and five years to where you are now. So what is five years? I mean, I guess a question for you would be like, where do you see yourself in? In five years? Or? Yeah, knowing how hard you’ve worked to get to where you are now? Do you have aspirations of like, okay, now I can kind of see where I want to go next in the areas that I want to focus on, where you kind of like, breath of air? I’ve done so much. And I just want to kind of like, get my feet underneath me with my career.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Right? Great question. Honestly, I haven’t even really thought about this. But I’m just one of those people who just always wants to do more. So I guess five years from now, I want to be doing more than what I’m doing now. Yes, that makes sense. But I see myself I love to keep doing research. I keep learning, kind of dipping my toes in any form of education. I think being able to see patients throughout the entirety of my careers is very important, because I don’t know how else you can kind of learn what’s going on without seeing a patient. So definitely would love to just be a clinical audiologist to doing some research and also giving a voice to people who have a hearing loss and advocating for them or for people who don’t know that they have a problem and get them through the door. I’d say is kind of being an advocate and influencing young people to get their hearing tested or influencing them to bring their parents in to get a hearing test and just kind of putting our profession out there more. I see people all the time who they still questioned me and say, Well, what is that field or about that? So I think I’d like to kind of make it so it’s just as known as Optometry. So to say, how will I get there? I don’t know yet. But that’s kind of I’d say, that’s fine.
Dave Kemp
Right? Yeah, exactly. Forever. Everyday, you’re kind of tinkering and iterating. I mean, like, the best part about this podcast is I meet people and then I kind of go down a wormhole about the that person and I do my research of the guests. And like, you were really fun to do this for because you are, you’re really impressive. And the way that you use social media is, it’s just one of those things where you like I am, I’m a millennial, and I even feel like wow, like she’s running laps around the way that I’ve, I’ve been like, kind of like, I interpret how you can use Instagram and like just social media, broadly speaking. So I wanted to kind of touch on this, I find it really interesting. How, you know, again, like some of the themes on the podcast have been, you know, this one would be like, how can you basically in a world where we know that we only have we have a scarcity of of labor for this kind of labor, right? And that’s not going to change, most likely, there’s only going to be like, probably 15,000 to 20,000 audiologists in North America. And so it’s like, Alright, so how do you maximize that. And I think that one really interesting way that I’m seeing is, people can have an outsized impact on social media, you can rather than see 30 patients in a day, you can hypothetically be seen 1000s of people a day in some semblance, because you’re interacting with them, you’re, you’re providing information. And so that, for me is like one of the coolest things that I’m noticing over the last decade, more or less this evolution of like, how audiologists are effectively using social media in different ways to either build their own brands and drive patients into their clinics, or like, their brands online of how they, you know, are gonna like, at, like you said, like, provide advocacy provide information. So where’s your head at with with this stuff? Where it’s like, as somebody that’s deeply entrenched in the world of social media and influencer marketing and all that, how do you sort of see that translating into audiology?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Absolutely, great question. I think that truth, truthfully, it’ll have a very positive impact in our field. I know a lot of people my age, at least, are on tik, Tok, Instagram, LinkedIn. And there’s a lot of room for education, and advocacy, I think, when something goes viral, so to say like a tick tock video about hearing health, or a clinic that offers XYZ, someone sees that, you know, maybe they’re not someone who has that issue, but they know someone, oh, by the way, I just saw this video that if you you know, get your hearing tested, it might prevent this, this and this from happening, or the benefits of treating your hearing loss. Or maybe they see a video on someone who has balance issues, who’s getting this tubular rehabilitation and they know someone so I see that it will definitely have a positive impact. I think it’s started in a lot of medical fields already. I see. Dentists, medical doctors and optometrists branding themselves, perhaps further private practices, but also to educate people on best practice, and abnormalities are what they specialize in. So I see it as a really good tool to help people become more knowledgeable, more aware and to seek help faster, so to say, yeah,
Dave Kemp
no, I couldn’t agree more with that. I mean, do you see yourself as this is like, everything that you’ve learned so far, that’s 100% gonna be a part of your approach more or less as like, I’m going to use all of the digital tools available to me and basically my digital persona to amplify the things that I’m kind of doing in the real world. Absolutely,
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
I am. So for personal branding. I can’t stress that enough. I think every anywhere from LinkedIn to Instagram, having a platform to showcase at who you are, be what you offer. I would like to transition my personal social media to something thing that is more tailored to my profession. Because I just know how valuable it is and how people are actually I feel like more interested in that than fashion or travel. So to say, it’s just kind of how to bridge that gap.
Dave Kemp
Yeah. And again, it’s one of those things that’s so nascent. I mean, people are really, I think it’s obvious now that like, social media is way more than a toy, like it was perceived by, you know, most people when it first debuted. And then it’s just kind of the evolution of these new mediums is like they, they get more sophisticated, they get more users, so there’s more visibility, and then eventually it reaches this like critical mass where, you know, I’m pretty sure that you can probably garner more attention through a really popular Instagram account than you can through a TV ad. And so it’s like the it’s like kind of a whole generational shift of like, how I think people are even thinking about how do you solicit people? How do you get people’s attention? And then once you have their attention, like, what are you going to do with that. And again, like, I just find this really, really interesting to find all these different little examples of how, you know, audiologists or SOPs, or whoever are like, they’re creating a page, like you said, personal brand building and really thinking about it that way of like, you know, there’s some downsides that come with it, like I’m sure you could attest to like, self promotion and stuff like that. But I think it’s so important to be thinking about, like, how can I extend myself online in some capacity. And it’s, it’s happening like in every industry now, and healthcare is no exception,
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
right? And think about to YouTube. That’s a that’s a huge social media platform that’s been around for years. And you can pretty much YouTube any how to write but imagine having, you know, as an audiologist, your website is there, you can give your website to your patients, and then all that how tos are there, how to look at my test results after of course, going through with it, but something that they can look back to it’s, you know, another form of web design or a media so to say, but something that they could maybe talk to other people to and like a chat, oh, I have hearing loss, it could be anonymous, or, you know, access to how to change this dome, or how to how to in more information about this manufacturer, I really think that it would be a very good way to streamline patients who have similar questions. I also think, too, with auditory rehab, that’s a huge one that I know, is difficult to provide as an audiologist you see your patient, but you typically either outsource that or have someone else in your clinic doing that. It having little reels, or clips or tiktoks. For people who say, someone’s parent wears a hearing aid and needs that extra support. You could have groups and do that in a social media way, I think would also help us allocate more time to uncovering that patient, peeling that onion, right. Instead of focusing our time on explaining things or doing the testing and streamlining that in some sense. Another part
Dave Kemp
of your story is after Nova, you spent some time in New York right at Weill Cornell. Can you talk a little bit about that? Absolutely.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
So in my program, the majority of ag programs are four years I believe in the States. Your your last year is a residency. And I applied essentially to places that offered an all encompassing experience where I was touching on everything because when I was in my third year, I liked everything. I truthfully, it’s hard for me to say that one thing is my favorite over another. So I really wanted to experience where I could really be immersed in all aspects of audiology and then kind of be able to narrow my focus after that, having my my toes dipped in multiple places. I applied to a bunch of amazing programs that had different experiences in audiology because I really couldn’t pinpoint, you know, children or adults APD focused or stiff. So I wanted something that encompassed everything. So I heard back from Cornell, I decided I kind of wanted to experience leaving Florida and go somewhere new. So I said why not? They looked like they did everything they did CI they did the step. Everything that I wanted to do, essentially everything audiology does. So I packed my bags, moved to Manhattan for the first time ever, and I loved it. So I was very nervous for my first day of the residency. Everyone was phenomenal. Every mentor I had was exceptional and it was a big team of audiologists, so everyone had their specialties, some people just focused on pediatrics, others focused on older adults, some were more diagnostics versus this dip amplification. So I really got to see a lot of everything I was able to observe CI tubes was it was very incredible. So I can’t stress how great that opportunity was, as well. I had some mentors that really kind of solidified what I wanted to do after my experience there. Again, I liked everything. But there was some areas I liked more than others, I really enjoyed amplification, working with older adults. And the counseling aspect, I’d say would be my favorite, one of my mentors, Dr. Montana, I was working for him for a couple months and observing him. And he did a lot of research on the stigma of hearing aids and hearing loss. So I was really able to keep that in my back pocket, because I learned a lot of my ability to counsel patients from that experience with him.
Dave Kemp
I mean, that’s very interesting. Okay, let’s talk a little bit about that. What What do you mean by that? I mean, obviously, I am well aware of the negative stigma and connotations that the general public largely has with hearing aids, although I do hope and think that is going away. And it’s sort of diminishing to some degree. Who knows, maybe the baby boomers will not give it, not give a hell? And they’ll just be like, you know, what, right? Let’s all wear hearing aids, it’s fine. But what’s that been? Like? We’re, you know, from the counseling standpoint, like, what did you really learn there. So,
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
to start seeing patients with him, we would all sit at the round table. So it was a very holistic experience, because everyone is invited and encouraged to come to the appointment, your brother, your sister, your mother, your father, to really see the whole picture, again, that onion, to really uncover who this patient really is, we would do multiple questionnaires, to really see where the person is struggling, what they’re going through, and really place an emphasis on the other people just as much as the patient because they too good. Yeah, can provide so much information, right. And there was always room at that table for whoever it was like an open conversation. With no time limit, we’re sitting there, we’re finding out where this patient struggles with most what environments they’re in, what the, the person’s wife has to say, or their kids. Because you you really you don’t you don’t know the whole picture until you get other aspects or other opinions of that person’s life. So that would be I’d say, number one, in terms of counseling, that was very interesting. And I want to carry that forward, for sure. Just the round table experience and inviting everyone to the appointment. And to something else I really learned that I would like to share with other audiologists is when people are asking in terms of prices, or the hearing aid and how come something so small is so expensive, and that at the end of the day, it’s not the hearing that the patient is necessarily buying, it’s the service behind it. It’s our hard work of going to school and becoming educated in this field. And something that will stick with me to this day, from what Dr. Martino had shared with me is that, if you would say this to patients to is that the hearing aid is the tool, essentially, so it can help you here. But then if he was a plumber, so to say, you know, I’m not saying this correctly, but I don’t know I get that I get service. And this is the tool and you need someone to help function the tool for it to work. So yes, if you were to buy the tool on its own, it wouldn’t do anything for you.
Dave Kemp
I think that the best. I have a similar sort of like, you know, hit me like a sack of bricks kind of moment where it just really resonated. And it was, I’ve mentioned this a lot before but it’s this quote that I found when I was putting together a presentation one time I just like happened to come across this quote from the hearing journal, I think and it was this audiologist and it was like in a world of like, basically commoditized hearing aids. You know, what really sets the audiologist apart is being a provision of knowledgeable expertise. And so it’s like that expertise is very hard earned and it’s actually something that’s scarce. There’s not a lot of people that truly have this institutional knowledge of like everything that goes into the diagnostics and then the the actual administration of the hearing aid and all that but I I am with And that I think that that’s like, the crucial point that you want to communicate is that the tool or the hearing aid is just a widget, it’s just a tool, it’s, but you have to have as much automation is, and we want to say that there’s these over the counter options. And I do think that there’s a place for that and all that. But for the people that are actually trying to really seek out help, and like you said, where you know that there’s multiple variables that you need to work through, you got to peel the onion, and I love this community approach where you’re getting other stakeholders, you’re getting the wife, you’re getting the kids, you’re getting the grandkids, whatever it might be, so that they’re all invested in this whole thing, too. Because you know, that there’s so much like, sort of, you gotta like, control that person to be like, we’re, I’m generalizing. But, you know, there’s a lot of, of, you know, sort of convincing that has to be done behind the doors that you’re not really a part of. And so to have those stakeholders involved, I think is, is huge. And
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
I have to say, that’s probably the best part of being, you know, in this field is, I would have to say, is that that interaction with patients, because if you’re just seeing patients and looking at them for what’s wrong with them, or you know, looking at them, because they have a hearing loss, then then what? What joy do you get from this profession? I love just chatting with people and getting to know who, who is sitting in front of me. Okay, what is going on? What is this hearing aid going to do for them? Because how can you even program a hearing aid if you don’t know, this, this person’s day to day and what environments they really struggled and okay, you have their audiogram, and they might have a high frequency hearing loss, and there’s so much you can do, but what situations are they in? Are they typically at home? Do they go to sports games? Do you need to make adjustments based on that and extra programs? It’s, it all comes hand in hand. So I think, you know, being a people person, and, and also being able to ask questions, but also listen to what your patient has to say is huge. Yeah,
Dave Kemp
I feel like that piece there. You listen. I mean, that’s the key, right is like, your job is more or less, to listen and kind of uncover all this and then parse together like, Okay, I’m starting to kind of skip the census. And again, like, all this stuff, like when I talk about it on the podcast, it seems almost like trivial, like, like a dog, of course, that that’s not happening, you know, like, you hear all the time, these people that have these, like, just horrible experiences, where if they were treated like nothing more than a sale, and they just kind of like got fit with first fit in there out the door, and there was none of that sort of, like, peeling off the onion, like you said, and that to me is where there’s always going to be demand for that. So I think that I have a really hard time envisioning that, when you come to the point where you have a severe enough problem where you have a moderate to severe hearing loss, which is the prescription hearing aid market more or less, you know, you’re I don’t think people are really that gung ho about trying to solve this on their own. Some people might be, but I think they’re, and then so it’s like, well, what options do they have? And so that, to me is like, if you can take this approach of like best practices, and then you can start to really leverage social media to communicate how you’re differentiated in your market. That’s a total winning strategy I would have to imagine. Absolutely.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Agree. Well,
Dave Kemp
this has been really fun. I’ve very much enjoyed, you know, getting to know you a little bit and, and hearing about your perspective. You know, it’s like I’ve had a bunch of different age ranges on the podcast, and to hear someone that’s just getting started out, be as optimistic and as excited about where this space is going. I just get excited about that, because I’m planning to be in this industry for a while so I, you know, need audiologists to continue to thrive in order for my business to continue to do well.
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Thank you so much for having me on. This has been a pleasure. And it was great to meet you. And if there’s one thing someone can take from this, if you’re a student going into audiology, or in general what you want to do or you’re you’re about to graduate and you’ve graduated, put yourself out there I would have never met you David honestly, if if I hadn’t kind of spoken to you multiple times I came by I was like I just have to tell you that your name is crazy. But you know, network meet people because you never know who you’re going to need or what some picking someone’s brain might do for for the next step in your in your career. So,
Dave Kemp
I mean, in a small world, like in this industry, I think it’s just like you can really accelerate your own trajectory by by just putting yourself out there and like you’re you can attest to this more than anyone have, like, you went to Miami moved your whole life there. Then you moved to New York moved your whole life there, but you were constantly pushing your comfort zone and like your comfort zone now has just expanded. You know, it’s not as if it like shrinks back down. And so I just think there’s a lot to that of like, especially when you’re young, putting yourself in positions that not like uncomfortable positions, but but challenging yourself to kind of like, try to put yourself out there because I couldn’t agree more. I just every single time I talk to somebody, there’s always these stories of these like, crazy serendipitous moments that they could have never anticipated. And they met the right person at the right time, opened the right door, whatever it is, and then like they were able to just sort of just catapult themselves in their career. So I couldn’t agree more with that advice. I think it’s really important on that note, where can people connect with you?
Emilie Vos, Au.D.
Um, you can find me on LinkedIn. It’s just Emily vos, EMI li e DLs. You can also follow me on Instagram, Emily Voss underscore and that’s pretty much it. Are you awesome? Send me an email. Emily boss personal@gmail.com If you’d like to ask me questions.
Dave Kemp Perfect. Well, again, thank you so much for coming on. Really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for everybody who tuned in here to the end and we will chat with you next time. Cheers.
