This week on the Future Ear Radio podcast, I’m joined by Grace Sturdivant, Audiologist and Owner/Founder of OtoPro Technologies. Grace shares the story of how and why she built a business that’s entirely centered around hearing conservation, and her branding efforts that have helped to fuel the success of her business.
As Grace describes, OtoPro is designed to provide individuals with custom hearing protection for all types of lifestyles, ranging from hunting, construction, industrial work, motorcycling and so on. Grace’s mission is to elevate the awareness of the importance of hearing conservation and the custom options available to people.
What I find most fascinating about OtoPro is the business model and the opportunity that it presents Grace’s fellow hearing care professionals. In this model, Grace captures the customer lead (through her branding efforts), the customer chooses which type of product they want, and then Grace sends that customer to a nearby hearing professional within her network to take the customer’s ear impression. The customer then sends Grace their impression (using a pre-paid label Grace sends the customer), to the lab for the custom molds to be made.
By joining the OtoPro network, the hearing professional essentially receives free leads to discuss other audiological services that might be suitable for the customer while they perform the OtoPro impression. For an industry with a sky-high customer-acquisition-cost (CAC), that’s a pretty sweet deal for professionals if you ask me.
Win (Grace) – Win (hearing professional) – Win (customer).
In addition, we talk a lot about the ways in which Grace has been growing the OtoPro brand from scratch. Grace shares how she got connected with Steve Rinella, who has a massive online following of millions of people with his Meat Eater brand and podcast, and her experience meeting Steve and his team about OtoPro and the importance of hearing conservation.
Another really interesting business model in the world of hearing health that shows the potential of other services and offerings that expand the scope of the hearing professional in the customer’s mind.
-Thanks for Reading-
Dave
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dave Kemp:
Hi. I’m your host, Dave Kemp. And this is Future Ear Radio. Each episode, we’re breaking down one new thing, one cool new finding that’s happening in the world of hearables, the world of voice technology. How are these worlds starting to intersect? How are these worlds starting to collide? What cool things are going to come from this intersection of technology? Without further ado, let’s get on with the show.
Dave Kemp:
All right, everybody. Welcome back to the Future Ear Radio podcast. I am so excited. Another really great guest today. I am joined by Dr. Grace Sturdivant. Grace, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Yeah, you got it. Grace Sturdivant. It’s a hard one, but you can pronounce it any way you want. That’s fine with me. I am Grace Sturdivant. I’m an audiologist and I’m based in Jackson, Mississippi. I know we’ll get into more details later, but essentially I started a business in 2018 called OtoPro, O-T-O-P-R-O. And through OtoPro, I am focusing solely on hearing protection, which is a little different than the traditional audiology practice.
Dave Kemp:
Absolutely. I’m so excited to get into this. And really as soon as we met and we had that first conversation, I was like, oh yeah, this is absolutely right up the alley with all the conversations I’ve been having, which is again, everything’s kind of been revolving around this theme of, okay, so here we are in April of 2022. And I think that the audiologist is sort of facing, it’s like, as a profession looking in the mirror and saying, how do I really differentiate in a world that really seems to want to make hearing healthcare feel commoditized, so how do you set yourself apart?
Dave Kemp:
And I think that I can’t wait to really dive into OtoPro because I think it’s such a good example of how these things that have always taken a backseat to hearing aids, I think need to be put forward and be put on the same level as hearing aids. Because I think that it just is another example of how the profession can elevate itself in different settings.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Absolutely.
Dave Kemp:
That’s what we’re going to get into, but let’s start with your background. I know that you went to Vanderbilt. So why don’t we just start with, how did you even get into audiology, and then just kind of walk us through those first years prior to starting OtoPro.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I will. I’ll try not to bore you to death. You can feel free to go back and edit and delete sections, large chunks of my life story, if you wish. I was born and raised in Mississippi, and I was raised in a family where we spent a lot of time outdoors. My dad is a big hunter, an outdoorsman. So I grew up in that world, very familiar and have a very healthy respect for gun sports, hunting, shooting, that sort of thing. My mother is a speech language pathologist by trade and has worked in so many different capacities through the years. As I was starting my undergraduate coursework, I wasn’t sure what I wanted to do. And the more I considered really, not as much what the job entailed, but I looked at my mom and how she’s been able to work a lot or a little based on what we needed in being a mom, there was a great work life balance there. And I thought, well, maybe this is something I’ll try.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I was at Ole Miss, University of Mississippi at this point, and started taking undergraduate courses for speech language pathology and their communicative sciences program. And when I got into the audiology coursework, it was like a light bulb triggered for me. And I became just completely fascinated with the auditory system and how it works and how we hear with our brains. I just totally dove in. I loved it. Watched a documentary about a cochlear implant story and was moved to tears in the classroom by this.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I’ve always experienced the world largely through my ears. I was taking piano lessons all through school and have had some vocal training and I love music. And my nickname in preschool was chatterbox. I’m a communicator by nature and I can’t imagine a world without sound. So if I could bring that to more people, that was what I wanted to do. From there, I set my sights on audiology school and as I was researching programs, Vanderbilt was just calling my name, and I’m still so grateful for the opportunity that I had to go through that program, but it was a fantastic experience.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And while I was in Nashville, I worked with a number of music and dreamed of opening a clinic, geared toward hearing healthcare for musicians. However, I fell in love with a boy from back home in Mississippi and moved back here. And so, I did my fourth year externship and then stayed on as faculty at the University of Mississippi Medical Center, and had a great experience building first chapter of my career there, where I was in the ear nose and throat department. And even though I think like so many of us maybe start out thinking I want to help all the cute little kids here, pediatrics was really not my calling as a clinician. I really enjoyed the more complicated diagnostics that I saw in this neurotology kind of ENT clinical setting.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And then over time, my clinical practice evolved such that I was seeing a lot of patients who had both hearing loss and some degree of dementia, some form of cognitive decline. And I became very fascinated by the work that was coming out of the University of Colorado and Frank Lynn’s work at John’s Hopkins and started not only just devouring all the research that was coming out on those topics at the time, but seeing firsthand in clinic where I had some patients who could be reclassified to a less severe category of dementia once they had appropriate auditability of the screening tools that are used for those things.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I started writing and speaking on the topic and talking to some area physicians groups about the importance of screening for hearing loss and referring to audiology when you’re evaluating cognitive impairment. Anyway, long story. But I ended up as an audiologist in our, we call it the Mind Center, where we’ve been a data collection site for the achieved study, which was fascinating work for me. But all the while, as I’m looking at the research and seeing what an impact hearing loss has on, it’s brain stimulation, essentially. Auditory stimulation is brain stimulation. And I became very compelled to help my own friends and family prevent, or at least delay the neurological reorganization that happens with auditory deprivation.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I started diving in and really researching all the available hearing protection products and trying to figure out which brands and manufacturers are actually doing the best job when you get past all the slick marketing collateral, and was able to provide some expert recommendations based off of this research that took some time to dive into when we’re so used to focusing on hearing aid technology. But there was another hurdle, and that was getting people in the doors of the clinic. My own father would not take time out of his schedule to make an appointment, sit in the waiting room and go through that clinical medical model to get his ears molded and look at his options.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
So back in the fall of 2018, I said, well, you know what? We’ve got these historical statistics of how long it takes for people to come through our doors once they’re debilitated by a hearing loss and noticing a problem. So I just need to get more realistic about this, and if I’m going to help people prevent these problems, like I want to do, I’m going to have to go to them. In the fall of 2018, I started OtoPro as a means for me to gain contracts with these different hearing protection companies and be able to place orders for people. And I would go over to my friends and family’s houses after work, and we would have a relaxed conversation at the kitchen table. I’d lay out all the options, mold their ears, and then drop ship products to them when they became available two to three weeks down the road. And then after they received the product, I was following up, checking fit, making sure all was well. And that service delivery model started spreading like wildfire.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I became inundated with request to stop by my office on my lunch break, or could we meet at the coffee shop and get this done. So here I go, all over town with my little ear mold impression kit, and my bag of samples and brochures from different companies to talk through with people, never dreaming that this would grow beyond something that I just kind of did on the side as a passion project for my friends.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
If you fast forward to the following summer of 2019, there was, I did not grow up in the sporting clay community, but there was a sporting clay tournament being held kind of local for me. And I’ve decided, Hey, you know what, I’ll just go set up a tent as the vendor and see what happens. And as I got started there making ear mold impressions, handover fist for people, I realized this could be a whole lot more, this could just be a whole lot more. And there were a few key individuals that traveled that circuit constantly. People just travel around the country, going to these sporting clay events. And he received his hearing protection he got from me and called me a few weeks later and said he had already filled up a legal pad of names of people who wanted to be fit. And could I please come to the world, no, it was the National Sporting Clay Championship that following October.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And that if I would, I could just come and set up with him. He was a vendor and that he would have people lined up. And that was the tipping point where I showed up in San Antonio at the National Sporting Clays Association, national shoot, and started molding people and working with people and building a more national client base. And it just continues to build exponentially through word of mouth.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
One thing that I have adopted as the legacy I want to leave, like a career goal for me as an audiologist is to shift the continuum of care to a much earlier point in time so that we are reaching people who are involved in high risk activities, which is most people because it’s not just shooting. You know what I mean? The hearing protection needs are all around us, but for us as audiologists to be the leaders at the forefront and the gatekeepers to this industry, we’ve got to go out and meet people where they are and not expect them, not wait on them to come to us, and to shift our focus from just the bread and butter, how we pay the light bill with our hearing aid sales, the long game for us to put our stake in the ground as the hearing care experts means that we have got to reach people before the damage is done and establish that care beforehand.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
How am I doing that when I’m drop shipping products and flying all over the country to mold people’s ears? Well, that’s where I came up with this idea, to build what I’m calling my preferred provider network. If you call me from St. Louis and I’m in Jackson, Mississippi, and we can’t justify, there’s not a large enough group to justify me coming to you to mold everybody’s ears, then what I’m doing so often now is calling local clinics to you there in St. Louis and finding someone who’s willing to charge you a fair price to mold your ears. Nobody’s asking any provider to do something for free. That provider’s time is very valuable. And I set up that appointment, facilitate the process, make it irrefutably easy for you as the patient. And then, I’ve established that local audiology care for the long term for you in St. Louis, because I don’t do any hearing aids with this business.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I’m very best practices oriented when it comes to hearing aids, that needs to be a local provider that you can follow up with that can be a strong relationship where you’re going to need to be working together to make sure that for the longevity of your hearing aid life, as a hearing aid where you have this local person that’s there for you. I recognize I’m not going to be able to do that for people. So I am more than happy to facilitate that relationship locally, because once I’ve established the trust with these patients and have brought them into the protection side and the prevention side, when they’re ready to seek hearing aid care, they’re coming to me and saying, who do I go to? And so, I feel really good about being able to support the local audiologist by sending these top technology most of the time referrals through their doors and just teeing that up and not asking for anything in return.
Dave Kemp:
Okay. I’m talking to the listeners now. See why I’m so excited to talk to her. I think that it is exactly what I’ve been driving at, which is like, there’s so much more opportunity here. There’s so much I want to unpack with that, but go on you, it sounds like you wanted to say something.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Well, this is something I feel like I can ramble on for days and you’re definitely going to have to direct me, but the legacy I want to leave as an audiologist is being accomplished through these provider referrals. And understandably, the over the counter, the third party, there’s so many things that I feel like audiology practices, especially the small private practices that I’m seeking out for these patients, they’re on guard when people call them and it’s not just a traditional referral.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And so, I want to be able to convey that it really is this simple. And I really am not trying to kind of keep my claws into this patient long term, only when it comes to the hearing protection side of things. The only thing I ask in return is that you don’t then as a provider, come on the back end and say, well, let me order some hearing protection for you. I can do that. But instead, to take advantage of, charge $5,200 to mold the person’s ears, and I’ve already encouraged that patient to sit for a hearing evaluation to get a full, even if it’s just a baseline, to get a full hearing evaluation, and then to talk through any day to day hearing technology that they are a candidate for. And that’s something that I want to be fully retained, fully the jurisdiction of that local practice.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I do not feel that I can do that and hold to the standards of care that I would hope every audiologist would have. There’s no way I’m going to be able to do really measurements on hearing aids with these clients across the country. So I want them to who have their local audiologists that they work with.
Dave Kemp:
All right. Let me see if I can unpack everything that I want to touch on from this, because there’s so much here. And so, I just find this all so fascinating. First off, [inaudible 00:16:45] love Ole Miss. One of my favorite. What did you like more Ole Miss or Vanderbilt?
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
It’s apples and all oranges, honestly, the experience at both. The experience as an undergrad versus a grad student is entirely different, night and day. I had a wonderful experience at both places. And prior to that, I was at the College of Charleston in South Carolina, which I still, I think my dad still refers to it as my two year beach vacation. So three very different cities and three very different experiences and I loved them all. It’s like asking me to choose a favorite child. I just can’t.
Dave Kemp:
I love that. I also think, for any of the longtime listeners, it’s really interesting that you mentioned the ACHIEVE trial in all the stuff that Johns Hopkins doing. I actually had, like 50 episodes ago, I had Nick [Ridon 00:17:34] who’s right there with Frank [Lindo 00:17:37] and that whole study. And I had no idea that he had mentioned these different clinics that were facilitating that, but it’s so interesting to now hear one of those facilitators of that study. And I think, again, for those that aren’t aware, I would definitely go check that episode out and just look into the whole ACHIEVE study that they’re doing. It has massive implications for the future of hearing care and the way in which this gets addressed early on when your physician is actually screening you for hearing loss in your routine checkup. So I wanted to mention that.
Dave Kemp:
I just think it’s really important to note that you recognized early on that there was a, you were a voracious reader for all of this research and you identified, okay, we need to get early intervention. That’s one of the most effective ways that you can cut this all off at the past is like hearing conservation. And what did you do? You went and you sought out a place where these people would be. And this is one of the biggest lessons I think that we all need to recognize, which is people aren’t going to just come to you. They’re not going to know that you exist. So you got to go and find them. And what better of a place to do that? Then go to, like you did, a clay shooting event. And it doesn’t have to just be an outdoor shooting event or something like that, but there’s lots of different examples of places that you can go to where you can meet people and you can show them, look, this is the type of thing that I represent and this is what I do. And it doesn’t surprise me at all that you had a legal pad of leads that came from this and it spread like crazy. So there’s that.
Dave Kemp:
And then really though, I think that OtoPro is so cool for a number of reasons. First of all, I think it’s awesome that you really did, you’ve kind of just have this as the main focus of hearing conservation. And I think for an industry right now that we’re, I think the profession is really looking for ways that they can differentiate, ways that they can generate ancillary revenue and not be so dependent upon hearing aids. Why not look toward things like this, where you can join your network. And I think this is brilliant, where you are the brand, you’re the one that’s actually capturing people at the top of the funnel. They’re coming to you because you’ve built OtoPro and they’re now, through word of mouth, marketing. We’ll talk about some of the levels up that you’re really taking in terms of how you’re growing your brand, but you capture that lead and then you send them to a local provider.
Dave Kemp:
I think that this is that collaborative mindset that I really encourage people to have is we are dramatically underestimating how many people could use audiological services. And if you play this game as if there is a scarcity mindset where there’s all only a certain amount of people, and that’s, if this person’s going to go to grace, then that’s a potential person that I could have had. You can’t think like that. Rather than that, think collaboratively. And I think that you’ve really demonstrated this, which is, Hey, Dave, if I had Dave’s audiology here in St. Louis, and you’re sending people my way, because you’re having all these people come to you and say, Hey, I want to get fit with these custom ear molds because I’m an active hunter, then you’re absolutely right.
Dave Kemp:
We’re talking about an industry that has an astronomically high customer acquisition cost. You have to spend all this money to get people through the door. So you’re saying that you have the ability to join a network where all I need to do is I can capture a new lead, potentially establish a relationship and all the tack on things that come from that, where I’m now your local provider, I’m in the OtoPro network, and all I have to do is I do this $50 to $100 impression that I’m taking.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Or whatever you want it to be.
Dave Kemp:
Whatever you want it to be.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I fully support the autonomy of the audiologist. As I kind of had this burning desire to have a private practice someday, it was so hard to ever try to make the numbers work. I was at an academic medical center. And so, I kept talking myself out of starting my own traditional private practice because the numbers looked so scary to me. And I have such respect for people that decide, okay, I’m going to open my own practice and I’m going to do this as an audiologist. I want those professionals to be autonomous over the fees they charge and how they do business. Of course, I want best practices and certain standards and I try to ask those questions as I’m bringing people into the network, but I don’t ask for any set charges. Literally, you tell me what is fair in your area.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
A small town in Mississippi is going to be different than some of my clinics in LA or Miami, as far as what they charge and how much you charge, if there’s ear wax that has to be removed. I just want to know what that fee is so that I can prepare the client for that before they arrive. And then there’s no fee. There’s no cost. I’m building my brand anyway. And so I’m spending the marketing dollars to capture these clients and then I send them to you. And the only thing I ask in return is to allow OtoPro to be the protection provider. So then the traditional audiology practice can continue focusing on being the expert in what’s going on in the hearing aid side.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I spend an enormous amount of time talking with companies quite literally around the world. I was up this morning at 5:00 to respond to an email from a guy in Germany before he left the all office. My husband’s going, “What are you typing out over there?” I went, “Yeah, I got to…” I’m truly seeking out new technology on the hearing protection side of things from around the globe. And I want to be the expert in that.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I know that when I was in a hearing aid practice, I was having to do the same things as I was researching and staying abreast of what’s going on with hearing aids. Let OtoPro be the protection expert and then funnel these patients to you, who if they don’t already, they recognize that they will need hearing aid technology in the future. I’m very careful with telling people, I can’t guarantee you’re never going to get hearing loss from doing these things that you love to do.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I explained bone conduction and how truly we’d have to put you in like a full body bubble suit to protect your cochlea from 160 decibel high powered rifle, but I can give you the most realistic tools possible. My job is to give each client all the options and then to work with them, to find what’s going to fit their budget and meet their needs and what is going to be the best protection that is realistic that they will actually wear, because I can make all kinds of ideal recommendations. And if the client’s never going to wear it, then it doesn’t do them any good. So I have to find the best possible option for each individual.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
While I would love for everybody to be wearing a completely solid plug with a very large muff on top, people just aren’t going to do it. So I present that option and then I take steps backward until we find, okay, that’s what I would actually do when I’m turkey hunting or duck hunting or clay shooting or riding my motorcycle.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. I think that it’s kind of like, because you had mentioned you’ve worked in an ENT setting, and I think there is a parallel here, which is when you are, whether it’s your physician refers you on or the ENT refers you on, or you’re getting referred in by OtoPro, it’s similar in the sense that you’re not really entering through the doors of the professional unwillingly, you’re not kicking and screaming. You’re not kind of adage of like, my wife is saying that I can’t hear her anymore and I’m turning up the TV too loud, that kind of thing, where you’re coming into it and you don’t even want to be there in the first place.
Dave Kemp:
And I think there’s a lot to be said for that, which is you, immediately the guard is down in a way that you can have a conversation and say look, let me just give you an [inaudible 00:26:04]. Let me just go and run a battery of tests on you to see where you stand right now. And now you know who I am and I’m local. And when you need me, I’ll be here. And I think that’s really, really powerful if you’re looking at the longevity of this and saying, again, these are people that you probably were never going to see in the first place, and now you have these new established relationships that could become blossom into lifelong relationships with new patients. And I think that’s what we need more.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
It’s going to prevent delaying and prevention of hearing loss, but then they’re going to be earlier adopters of hearing aids. They’re going to already kind of have overcome that stigma of wearing an ear level product. There’s so many little elements that shift that continuum earlier. These are all clients who wouldn’t have Googled an audiologist or have known what an audiologist was for potential really 15 years. When you look at the statistics, they might not really notice and have a problem with their hearing loss for five to 10 years from now. And then at that point, they’re going to wait the average of seven to 10 years to seek help. The value of these referrals is very high.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And because I’m dealing with, I’m working on adding some lower priced options because of some more national public exposure that’s coming up soon that I think we’re probably going to touch on, but right now, a custom set of solid ear plugs is still going to all in run you, but the investment’s going to be a couple hundred dollars. And so, you’ve got people that are spending anywhere from $200 to $2,000 on a set of hearing protection. And most of these people are coming to me and saying, I want the best available. I’ve tried other things. I just want the best available. That’s the way these same people are going to be approaching hearing aids as well. And they want a very high level of care.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
One thing I really look for it in audiology clinic is I want the person that answers the phone to be really friendly and social and welcoming that phone call. OtoPro essentially at the end of the day, we are a customer service company, because I don’t own a product. I don’t line, I’m an expert shopper. I call it a concierge hearing service because that’s what we do. My husband’s in the hotel business. And when I think of the term concierge, I think of someone who gets to know you and your family or whoever you’re traveling with, and they learn what you enjoy, what you like, and then they plan out your day for you. And because they’re the bird in the area, they know all the restaurants, they know all the activities. Well, that’s what I’m doing for hearing protection for people, but it doesn’t stop there.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Once people get their ears molded, they get the products, I’m following up. I have questionnaires. I do virtual appointments where we’re checking fit, making sure they know how to insert, remove properly, making sure they know how to get them out of all the technology features if they’re going with some of the more high tech stuff, and then they know how to contact me or someone on the OtoPro team if they forget how to change a wax filter, or if they’ve got one where the battery’s not charging or whatever. I tell my clients, once you’re in the OtoPro fold, if you have an issue or a question, you don’t have to call a number, sit on hold with an 800 number with a manufacturer. You just shoot us an email and we’re going to send them a prepaid UPS label and take care of it on the back end. It’s this customer service model.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Another thing that I would want to tell an audiologist who’s considering contacting me to get some of these referrals is that when the patient comes in, let’s talk about the process. The patient typically calls the clinic. I tell them to call and says, hi, I’m an OtoPro referral. I need to get my ears molded. And then they also say whether they want to get their hearing tested, whether they’re having issues with their hearing. They set the appointment, they show up, they go through that visit, they pay the clinic whatever their fees are at the conclusion of the visit, but that patient already has the mailing label that they need. They just leave your office with the ear mold impressions in a little, any, any ear mold box that you have on hand. And then the patient takes that and drops it at UPS or the post office.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
So truly, it’s minimal, minimal work and resources required from the audiology clinic. I’m not asking them to place the order or get something in the mail. All they’re doing is charging for the service of making those molds and handing them to the patient to send to me.
Dave Kemp:
I just think that I love that. I think it’s again, simplicity rules, and it’s just seamless. And I think that, I just look at this and I say it’s such a breath of fresh air, because again, it’s not hearing aid related. There’s too much of a focus on that, I think. I think we need as an industry to really expand, hearing aids are obviously a really important part, but it’s not the end all be all. And I think that it allows you to cast such a wider net when you’re not perceived as just a hearing aid dispenser or however the public perceives you. And I think that this kind of stuff, broadly speaking, over time can completely transform the perception of the audiologist to something that’s more comprehensive, which is what it is. I think that part of the issue is that we’ve over the course of 40 or 50 years pigeonholed as a profession, into really being limited in the zeitgeist and overall perception of the public of you are a hearing aid dispenser. Like it or not, that’s what people perceive if they even know what an audiologist is.
Dave Kemp:
And so, I think that there has to be more of a focus around taking this back and reclaiming the totality of audiology of we’re much more than that.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Yeah. I’ve had a few clinics tell me, well, we don’t have a way to charge for that service because we just build it into the product price when we order an ear plug or an ear mold for someone. And I offer a little pushback on that. I highly encourage audiologists to separate their service from the product when it comes to what people are paying for. When I was at the University of Mississippi Medical Center, there was a group of us that put out a paper on a level of service model for unbundling our clinic, so that similarly to the medical model where you have a level 1, 2, 3 service that carries a different charge, we kind of set up a framework like that for our clinic for that purpose, because there is a sense of urgency in my mind for us as an audiology community to separate ourselves as the hearing care experts and we can order these products for you based on our expertise.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Similarly to what I’m doing with hearing protection, by saying, sure, I’ll order you from this manufacturer or this one or this one, or maybe we’ll try this style, but then if that doesn’t work, we’ll swap it out and do something else. But it’s my expertise that people value. It’s not a product sale. It is a service of working with a hearing care professional to guide you through the purchase process. And that’s a very tricky thing. I’m always, if any of my highly visible people on Instagram are going to promote OtoPro, I always coach them to please don’t tell them that one specific product is the end all be all. That’s not at all what I’m trying to do here, because there are some people who, at the end of the day, I’m just going to teach them how to wear phone plugs correctly and my job is done. I can sleep well at night knowing that if that’s the best option someone has, then if that’s where I can serve best, that’s what they’re going to do.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And in the hearing aid world, in the traditional clinic model, we’ve allowed ourselves to become so dependent on the revenue of hearing aid sales. And I feel like we’ve gone so far down this path. It’s going to take some maybe painful transitions to work our way out of that. Politics aside, as far as where people stand on the over the counter movement, that’s happening, it’s happening.
Dave Kemp:
It’s happening.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
That’s going to cause a further delay of when we’re able to capture the client, unless we capture them before they even need the over the counter product. Unless we go through a model like OtoPro, where we’re seeking people out, where we’re the proactive ones, going out to where people are and saying, Hey, you’re involved in a very high risk activity. I’m an audiologist. Let me help you with this. Let’s get started now. And then, my clients call me. I can’t tell you how many, I feel like if I were getting paid for hearing aid sales, I’d be making a killing because people are constantly calling me saying, okay, I think I’m ready. Who do I go to? What brands, what am I looking for?
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I coach people through the hearing aid process all the time. They’ll call me after their initial fitting and say, oh, this is so overwhelming. I don’t know if I can do this. And I’m giving people the same pep talks that I gave them when I was doing my own hearing aid practice about how long it takes to acclimate. And you’ve got to wear them all the time and not just when you’re going out to dinner. I want to support the audiology practice. I want to be almost like a marketing arm or a client capturing arm for these practices all over the country, which we’ve got, I think the numbers up at about 140 right now, audiologists nationally, where we’re doing this. And in some key cities where the audiologist really buys into this model and we’re working alongside each other.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Nashville comes to mind, Birmingham, San Antonio. These are places where I’ve developed a very strong relationship with a local provider and they get it. We’re very simpatico on the principle of what we’re doing here to help people. And I have been able to do some more targeted marketing, digital marketing in their areas to funnel more and more of these referrals. And they’re seeing a great return in the hearing aid world, the hearing aid capture and this earlier adoption, where they’re treating a mild to moderate loss that would probably not have sought out care until it was much more severe.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
It can be such a symbiotic relationship. And that’s what I want people to understand. I get the cynicism and I get it when we’re met with kind of this guard up because clinics are getting calls all the time from third party and these programs and what am I signing up for, and this is just a very simple mission driven approach to shift the beginning of care.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. In a world full of what feels increasingly more and more like people are just kind of threats, it seems too good to be true. And I think that’s part of it is like you’re running up against that, is that people are just inherently skeptical right now. And I just love that whole distinction that you made. And I couldn’t agree more. I think that, if you’re really adamant about having a bundled model, then have a bundled and an unbundled model. Because I think that it’s just going to become more and more apparent as time goes on that you have to separate the two. And I think that this whole thing of, let me just put the services first, because that allows for you to bill for your time, for your services, not a product related thing.
Dave Kemp:
The product then is secondary. You’re not associated with it and really rooted with it in the minds of the patient, in the minds of the consumer where they say that, I just think there’s a lot there. That is really important to understand that by disentangling yourself from the product itself, it allows for you not only to really put your value, your expertise on the pedestal, but also it allows for you to say that I’m agnostic. I don’t really have a dog in the fight. I believe that there are a multitude of good options and let me kind of give you a few different things that might be best for you. That small messaging change might be the difference between where people think, am I getting ripped off here, am I getting gouged, to something where they say that these are the recommendations that they made. And the first and foremost thing was that I’m getting my hearing loss treated as opposed to getting hearing aids.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Right. There’s so much there. It’s like, should we even be calling them hearing aids anymore? Or should they all just be hearables or should they all just be hearing technology or, because the term hearing aid carries and just continues to carry this stigma and connotation that goes along with it, as I’m talking with people, but when I’m putting hearing protection on their ears, that has some amplification in hearing aid technology in it, they view it completely differently. And they’re asking me or telling me that they end up wearing these all the time and I’m going, no, these are not reco… If you enjoy wearing this product, when you’re just talking with your wife at home, then please dear goodness, follow up and go get some actual hearing aids. I have to explain how for hearing protection, I need a perfect acoustic airtight seal of your ear with no venting. With a hearing aid, I’m going to be trying to find the point that I can leave your ear as open as possible and give you the amplification you need at certain pitches. It’s entirely different.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And so, I tell people, if you like this product day to day, then a true hearing aid that is programmed to you is going to rock your world.
Dave Kemp:
Couldn’t agree more. Let’s change gears a little bit. We’ve alluded to it. And I just think that this is so cool. I just love the way that you’re building your brand. It’s just really inspiring as somebody that also works in this industry to see one of our own elevating to the level that you are. You told me that you’re going to be on Steve Rinella’s podcast, which for those that don’t know, Steve Rinella is, he’s a really, really big deal. Maybe I’ll let you just kind of talk about how this even came to be, who Steve is and just give us a little bit of a peak behind the curtain of how your brand is growing. Because it seems like you’re kind of hitting into a whole new stratosphere here and it’s really cool.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Well, again, this has all been so organic. I only started spending minimal marketing dollars a few months ago. It has been word of mouth and just happy people telling people. With this, The MeatEater, it’s a hit television show on Netflix. They have multiple podcasts and different media outlets, YouTube through their website. And then they have a number of contributors that have, I guess you would call them more kind of specific show offerings that come through their umbrella.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I’m sure that someone from MeatEater is going to listen to this and want to correct how I’m explaining it, but this is my best knowledge. Steven Rinella is, or has been described to me as potentially the most influential outdoorsmen of our time. He raises money for public lands to be reserved in perpetuity for public use, for hunting and fishing purposes. He’s a conservationist. What a lot of people that are not involved in the hunting community don’t understand as a culture I was steeped in as a child, is that hunters actually do very important animal control, animal population control and conservation work for our environment. And that’s something that if you didn’t grow up in that, or if you’re not familiar with that, I can understand how hunting could be perceived as very off putting and cruel and all of that. And in reality, I say that hunters are our true environmentalists.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
So Steve Rinella is kind of that in person portrayed as a person that is Steve Rinella, but he’s a highly intelligent guy and his particular podcast, The MeatEater podcast is his show. And it’s the leading outdoors podcast ever of all time, I don’t know the statistics. But they have this show on Netflix called MeatEater. And then, like I say, there’s all these other contributions. Well, one of those contributors is a guy that goes by the name, Chef Jean Paul. And Chef Jean Paul is based in my neighboring state of Louisiana. And he hosts a show called Duck Camp Dinners. And it’s a really great funny show and cameras follow him and his friends around, through Cajun swamp country. And they go out on these hunts and then they come back and it’s like a cooking show. They’re preparing their meal and they’re having a great time and there’s lots of laughs and it’s an entertaining little show.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I was introduced to Chef Jean Paul by guy that I’m good friends with, who lives here locally in the Jackson, Mississippi Metro area by the name of Josh Ragio. Josh Ragio has built this cult following for his custom-made duck calls that are like works of art. He’s a duck call maker.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Well, Chef Jean Paul bought a duck call from Josh Ragio. They struck up a friendship. He noticed Josh Ragio’s earplugs. Josh said, “Oh, you need to call my friend Grace.” Then I end up on the phone with him. Chef Jean Paul was spending some time in Texas and I was able to source a clinician locally for him in Texas to get his ears molded. We talked through product offering. I got him hooked up with some products that he really has loved using. And he loved that he was not being asked to endorse one specific product. It was more of, Hey, I was asking him, would you be willing to use your influence and your platform to just promote taking care of your hearing and to promote hearing protection as another piece of essential gear that goes into your bag. And sure, if you could tag OtoPro as the best source for that, that’d be great. But he bought into this service model. And the level of customer service that came along with that, that we truly provide to everybody. We don’t care if you have a show or not.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And so, Chef Jean Paul called me up one day and he said, “I’ve been thinking about it. And I just really think that Steve Rinella and the rest of these guys with the bigger Netflix show would be all over this. And I think they’d really want to hear what you have to say.” The emails started circulating back and forth between us and their people. I don’t have people. So their people and my people, which is me, started trying to coordinate, what is this? How could this work? What does this look like? Are these guys interested?
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And finally, just a few weeks ago, in March of 2022, here I go on a plane to Bozeman, Montana, and did not know truly how much interest there was going to be. I knew that a few of them really wanted to meet with me, but I had set the bar kind of low in my mind, recognizing that these guys get hit up for stuff all the time. And it was a Friday afternoon. We’ll see where this goes. Well, I walk in and I think I had scheduled to be at their headquarters for two hours. And I was there from 10:00 AM until after 3:00 PM because they were so attentive and so inquisitive and interested. And we did not even talk about product selection. We spent that entire time talking about hearing, noise exposure, the types of noise exposure that go along with the different types of activities they’re doing, the cognitive implications, my work with dementia and hearing loss, why we have tinnitus, where it comes from, the limbic systems involvement. It was this true hearing healthcare all day session.
Dave Kemp:
Symposium.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Symposium. And it was true. It was engaging. Oftentimes when I’m talking to people, I just kind of have to read the audience. Because when their eyes start glazing over, if I’m talking about cognitive load and how the reorganization of the pathways in the brain, I just have to read the room, and these guys were on the edge of their seats. I was so honored that they were so interested and kind of shocked that they had not been approached by someone already to talk about this with their level of influence.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
So, I molded, goodness, I’m looking at them all over here. Over 20 sets of ears that day. Steve Rinella came into the room. We had 30 minutes allotted to be together. And I think we were together for over an hour. He’s a super academic and had lots of interest in all the hows and whys of hearing and hearing loss and tinnitus. And we had really great discussion.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
As I was molding his ears, he’s saying, “We’ve got to get you on the podcast. There’s a lot to talk about here.” So here we go. And now, I hate to even promote it too much. It’s not done until it’s done, but we’ve blocked off several days in June to potentially for me to go back up and record. And I couldn’t be more excited about it, because that first meeting with them was, it really blew me away as far as their level of interest. And if that’s any indication of where we stand like a cultural marker for, this is something that might not be at the forefront of everyone’s minds, but it is something that once you kind of crack open the lid and bring up the conversation, people are very interested.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
We all have people in our lives that communication’s gotten really difficult and watching our loved ones get older and go through the aging process can be very difficult and painful to see, and how much more painful is it when you see those layers of dementia. And now we know those layers combined with what we used to see as just the inconvenience of hearing loss. Now that we know so much more, and we will be learning so much more about that overlay of hearing loss and what that really means, people are interested and ready. And we as audiologists are the most ideal resource for explaining this to people.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
We should be the gatekeepers to this information, but in order to do that, we’ve got to get outside the walls of our clinics, and we’ve got to get out from underneath this stronghold of the hearing aid sale in order to be the ones that are sharing this information, because I, for one, the over the counter hearing aid is coming and there’s going to be a lot of marketing and there’s going to be a lot of information and I’m sure misinformation that comes along with that. And we, as the audiologist need to be getting out in front of that with the skillset and the education that we uniquely hold in this area.
Dave Kemp:
Couldn’t agree more. I just think it’s so cool to hear this whole journey. This has been one of my favorite episodes that I’ve ever done because it touches on everything that I’ve really enjoyed about this podcast, which is meeting people who are really pushing the boundaries. And I think that you’ve got this background of academia, you’re so well versed in all the research, you’ve been involved with the research with all of the dementia studies and all of that. And being able to completely just transcend the four walls of the clinic, like you said, and make this… I think that one of the most fascinating things about this whole story that you’ve told is you elevate your brand to the point to where you’re sitting in a room with Steve Rinella, a guy who literally this guy’s followed by millions of people. This dude is up there with like Joe Rogan of the biggest podcasters out there. And you have them just enthralled with what you’re telling them. And I think that’s the key takeaway here is that this stuff is actually really interesting to people.
Dave Kemp:
I think that we have this tendency as an industry to just say that no one cares about this and that, because I think we’re all conditioned from the past 50 years of that, like I was describing earlier, the kicking and the screaming coming into your office where, and a lot of this does have to deal with the stigma associated with hearing aids and the connotation with like, that means I’m getting old or I’m [inaudible 00:52:46] or whatever that might imply in people’s minds. And I think that what’s so just exciting about this is that it’s never too late for all of us, I think, to try to reclaim what this whole industry and the profession stands for, which is the totality of everything related to the ear. And I think that having this be something where it’s all about getting in front of it at the beginning and helping people to understand the public messaging around why it’s so important to take care of your ears at a young age.
Dave Kemp:
In the same sense of why you shouldn’t smoke cigarettes, because of the long term effects that it’s going to have on your health. The same applies for our ears, but that’s just not something that’s really been broadly communicated. People don’t really know. I think that there is tremendous amount of potential here for, and it doesn’t have to be in these, for the listeners out there who are just like, this is really cool. I’m really inspired by it, but I’m starting at zero, how do I get to this point? It doesn’t have to be something where you have to go and get on the Steve Rinella podcast, just getting and having these conversations and pushing yourself to say like, is there a school fair or is there somewhere that I can put up a little six-by-six table and just show people here’s what an audiologist does and here’s all of the different things that the field of audiology stands for. There’s just so much there. And I think that we’re at…
Dave Kemp:
I think for me personally, one of the biggest takeaways I have from doing this podcast and just my perspective of the industry is that we’re actually maybe in this period right now, that is a transitory period that will be painful, but it might be the best thing that’s ever happened to audiology because it’s a forcing function for everybody to finally recognize that they’re more than just hearing aid sales people. And it’s forcing people to have to reexamine that, how can I make money in other ways other than hearing aid sales. And I think what’s becoming realized is whether it’s the dementia path or the tinnitus path, dizziness, vertigo, all these different things, hearing conservation, there’s a lot out there. And it’s just a matter of identifying, what parts and pieces do you want to be a part of your service offering and start to put that on the same level as the hearing aid.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
I think we can’t get too comfortable, no matter. If your gift and your calling and what gets you going is truly staying in that hearing aid zone, then goodness knows that’s important, but learn as much as you can, be the expert on all the different offerings. Don’t sell out to just one brand and be a starchy or a phone act or an [inaudible 00:55:53] only kind of clinic. I would just highly encourage, the more you can have credibility based on your expertise as an audiologist, apart from that, to just learn and do that through your knowledge base, where you have to be continually learning.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Our technology and offerings are changing so quickly. And so, if you find yourself doing what you’ve been doing for the last several years, then it might be time to reevaluate, like what’s new. Is there a different piece of equipment or a different offering or something new I need to enter into my test battery? It’s easy to fall into these habits and these grooves where you’re kind of on autopilot, but I think that if we can just push ourselves to continue being the expert at whatever little corner of the field is our specialty, then to do that, to be the very best at that. If it’s balance, get as much continuing it as you can on balance. If it’s implantable devices, if it’s hearing aids, if it’s hearing protection.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
And certain, OtoPro, like I say, a huge facet of what I’m doing is to establish that local point of care for clients across this country and beyond, as we’re starting to expand into Canada and it’s just wild. But as we’re doing that, if hearing protects, if modeling what I’m doing and going out to clay shoots is not for you. If you don’t have that in your bandwidth or your wheelhouse or just in your interest level, let OtoPro do that, let us know of what event in your area is happening and let us spend our marketing dollars on that. And then you be the recipient of all the referrals that are going to come from it. It’s really a beautiful, simple, easy thing to allow OtoPro to be the protection expert arm of your practice.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
We’re happy to do it. We love doing it. It’s where we’ve chosen to focus. And when patients start to ask us questions about hearing aids, I have stayed abreast of the general view of what’s out there and some of the cool new products and features, but that’s not where I’m spending my time and that’s not where I feel my mission with OtoPro requires my attention. I need to know every possible hearing protection product who makes it the specification, exactly how it works. Every single product I dispense is something that I will have used and vetted and verified and could probably take it apart and put it back together. Hearing aids, not so much. If you want to work with OtoPro so that we can capture these people for your practice and send them to you, it’s a really that simple, just let us know.
Dave Kemp:
I love that. This has been such an awesome conversation. I’m so happy to have met you and become exposed to OtoPro. I think this is just such a cool concept, and I’m just really inspired by the way that you’ve grabbed life by the horns and you’ve just seized the opportunity here. For those that are listening, that are definitely intrigued by this whole idea, how can they reach out to you? How can they join your network?
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
The best possible way to reach out to us is to go to otoprotechnologies.com. Technologies is plural on that, and just fill out a contact form. I can also be reached at grace@otoprotechnologies.com, but either one of those would be a fantastic way to start the point of contact and let us know where you are and a little bit about your practice. We seek out practices that carry our level of customer service and customer engagement. We want nice, clean offices, but more than anything, we want a high standard of care and practice. And we want to know that when we’re sending people to these local clinics, that they are caring for patients with the same bar of excellence that we hold. We love adding clinics to that network and then starting to draw new circles on the map of places that we can market.
Dave Kemp:
Absolutely. So cool. Thank you so much, Grace. Thanks for everybody who tuned in here to the end and we will chat with you next time. Cheers.
Grace Sturdivant, AuD:
Thank you.
Dave Kemp:
Thanks for tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future Ear Radio. For more content like this, just head over to futureear.co, where you can read all the articles that I’ve been writing these past few years on the worlds of voice technology and hearables and how the two are beginning to intersect. Thanks for tuning in, and I’ll chat with you next time.
