This week on the Future Ear Radio podcast, I’m joined by Shadi Chakoutahi, owner and founder of Staffing Proxy. Shadi entered into the hearing health industry in 2017 when she joined the Elite Hearing Network as a Business Director, which is where she quickly identified a gap within the market around staffing and recruiting. One of Shadi’s Elite clients, a private practitioner, was looking for help with hiring another Audiologist and while the status quo solution at the time was to simply post the job listing on Indeed, Shadi felt that this decision was much too important that needed a better solution.
Flash-forward to the end of 2019 and Shadi decided to be the solution to the problem she encountered early on within the hearing health industry by launching Staffing Proxy – A recruiting firm specifically focused exclusively on the hearing health industry.
So, I thought it would make for a great conversation to get Shadi’s perspective of what’s transpiring right now within the hearing health industry, from a recruiter’s point-of-view. As someone talking to employers and prospective employees in every facet of the industry, Shadi shared a wealth of interesting insights about some of the trends that are developing within the hearing healthcare labor pool.
Our conversation focuses on that of both the employer and the employee. For employers, we discuss what it means to be an, “employer of choice,” and recognizing the changing the expectations of today’s employees, which have been largely altered by the pandemic (i.e. the increasing demand for remote work). For employees, we talk about some areas that might have more availability than others within the industry and what employees can do to stand apart.
In addition, we discuss the auxiliary workforce of front office staff, technicians, and hearing instrument specialists and how these kind of workers can be utilized by employers in creative ways. For example, we discuss creating paths of upward mobility for workers and mapping out how employers can work to “grow their own talent.”
Shadi provides yet another really interesting perspective on how the hearing health industry is rapidly evolving and shares her take on how individuals working within the industry can be most successful.
-Thanks for Reading-
Dave
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dave Kemp:
Hi, I’m your host, Dave Kemp, and this is Future Ear Radio. Each episode, we’re breaking down one new thing, one cool new finding that’s happening in the world of hearables, the world of voice technology. How are these worlds starting to intersect? How are these worlds starting to collide? What cool things are going to come from this intersection of technology? Without further ado, let’s get on with the show.
Dave Kemp:
Okay, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Future Ear Radio. I’m joined here today by Shadi. So Shadi, tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Awesome. Thank you for having me. All right, so as you said, I’m Shadi, and I typically skip my last name because it’s a crazy last name. It’s Chakoutahi. And so I am the founder of Staffing Proxy. We are an HR and recruiting organization dedicated to the hearing healthcare industry. Yeah.
Dave Kemp:
Perfect. I love it. And like you said, you’re like Cher or you’re like Madonna. You’re just one name. You’re just Shadi.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. Just Shadi.
Dave Kemp:
Just Shadi. Well, this is awesome to have you on. The first time we met was, I think, down in Cancun for one of the Elite shows back when Elite existed and back when you were one of the reps there. And so got to know you a little bit there, and it’s awesome how this industry tends to be the king of things coming full circle and just sliding doors kind of thing. So it’s great to reconnect with you because I do think that you’re in a really interesting position right now. And I think that as is the theme on this podcast lately, it’s this notion of the state of the hearing health industry and sharing a lot of different perspectives about this evolving nature of it.
Dave Kemp:
And so as somebody that’s in this staffing world, I think that’s really fascinating because you’re talking to a lot of employers, a lot of perspective employees, and I think you have probably a really interesting finger on the pulse of what’s going on under the radar right now. So why don’t we start, though, with your backstory a little bit, share how you came to even join Elite. I believe that was the origin of how you came into this industry. And then maybe just talk through how the whole genesis of Staffing Proxy came to be.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. So joining Elite is an interesting story on its own. So my background, my bachelor degree is in electrical engineering, so nothing to do with HR or recruiting. And then throughout the years, I transitioned to managing and leading people, and I realized that really, as an engineer, managing and leading people just didn’t make sense. So I got my MBA and then I got into more leadership and management roles. And later on, a friend of mine, she was part of [Amplifi Global 00:03:10], and throughout events, family gatherings and everything, I kept running into a few of the folks from Miracle-Ear. And they were telling me that we have medical retail locations and we have customers, patients coming and buying hearing aids. And the whole thing just didn’t make sense to me. What do you mean people buy hearing aids?
Shadi Chakoutahi:
It just was a foreign thing to me. And later on down the road, you are up and down in your career, and I had a conversation with them. And it appeared that I was actually doing something very similar in my prior position than Elite. And that’s it. I joined Elite. And it’s interesting how Staffing Proxy came about because I want to say it was the second week that I was part of Elite. And I was out in the field in the east coast with one of my field reps. And it was the very first client or member, as Elite folks used to call it, that I was visiting. And we’re visiting. It’s this amazing client. She has, she had, keyword, three private practices. And the first thing she told us as we met her was that I’m extremely short staffed.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
I need help with finding an audiologist. And the rep said, no worries. We’ll place an ad for you on Indeed, and we’ll go from there. The whole time flying back home, I kept thinking to myself, you can’t just place an ad in a recruiting platform and expect a business owner to just find someone and fix the problem. Recruiting and hiring people is a long process. It’s a complicated process. It takes time. And it was just crazy to me that there was not a dedicated resource. And we didn’t even get to spend time with that individual understanding why she was even short staffed to begin with.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
So this whole thing was in back of my mind the whole time that when the time is right and when I have the opportunity, this is what I want to do. And it was a private practice and she unfortunately ended going out of business because she didn’t have enough employees in her practice. And she wasn’t able to find a new audiologist who was able to purchase her practice. So it was a combination everything that inspired me to just say, you know what? This is it. I’m going to do it. And here we are.
Dave Kemp:
And here we are. I do find this fascinating that you sort of noticed a gap in the market, if you will. And I think that that rep, that was probably pretty standard. It’s so much of what I’ve come to learn on this podcast is obviously there’s so many things that go into owning and operating a business. And an audiologist, by and large, wants to just focus on audiology. And so it’s like, you have a lot of these different vendors that cater to some of these different things, but staffing is a really interesting one because it is something that is so critically important, but it’s like, oh, we’ll just put an ad on Indeed, because I think the discrepancy between just doing something like that, it’s still helpful. And it’s like, okay, that’s at least a start.
Dave Kemp:
But the difference between that and a full blown, we need to actually help you from a recruiting aspect is night and day different. And so I think that’s an interesting gap in the market, like I said. So I’m curious to hear from you, when did you actually make the leap, start Staffing Proxy? Did you initially focus beyond this industry and then circle back around? How is your client demographic makeup now? Is it primarily this industry or are you doing placement or recruiting for all different industries?
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. Good question. So we started October of 2019, and officially everything was live January of 2020. So the timing of course was not the best with the pandemic hitting, or that’s what I thought at the time, that timing was not great with the pandemic. But in hindsight, when I look back at everything, it was perfect because it helped me and my team to stabilize and build a foundation and just connect with everyone that we needed in the industry in understanding what we needed to do. So with that said, we only work in hearing healthcare. That’s all we do. We don’t work with any other industries. There are ancillary industries that we have people reaching out to us, optical and those industries, but that’s not our expertise. I wouldn’t even be able to explain what the qualified candidate looks like.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
So with that, our client mix is, we have private practice audiologists and that’s anywhere from one audiologist and one front office to 25 audiologists and 20 PCCs. And then we have ENT practices, not for profits, large hospital systems. So we have all different client types. But our goal, and that’s what we constantly talk about, my team and I, our goal is to make sure… Our tagline is, your next connection. Our goal is to be that matchmaker, to be that connection between a person that may be looking for a position or may just not be happy or fully satisfied, not getting everything that they need in their current position, connecting them with an employer that we call an employer of choice.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
And that’s the whole topic that we constantly talk to our clients about. It’s not an impossible task, but an employer of choice is an employer that their employees and everyone in their business really dedicates themselves to their success. So what happens is when someone is a really good employer, they have great brand reputation. They practice great employment laws. They really don’t need to come to us because they’ll always have people who want to work for them. And I can talk about that all day because I get so passionate, talk about employer of choice, but anyhow…
Dave Kemp:
Well, we’ll definitely get into that. I think there’s a couple really interesting things about this. Obviously, your business begins during the pandemic, or right at the onset of it. And like you said, that gave you an opportunity to probably lay the foundation for the business. So, that’s important. But I do think that the other interesting thing about that is the pandemic ushered in so many… I think it gave everybody a reason to pause and say, is this where I want to be in my life? And I think that you see this now in the way that the labor market broadly speaking has taken shape. A lot of people have exited. A lot of people have taken an early retirement. Others are in entirely different careers. And so I think that it’s really interesting timing for a company like yours to emerge, to cater to what I imagine to be a lot of lifestyle and career changes that go along with at that.
Dave Kemp:
And like you were alluding to there, let’s get into some of these, what you mean by this whole idea of employers of choice, because I do think that’s another thing that what was considered to be a desirable job has changed a lot. Remote work is such a theme now. So it’s like that’s really pervasive and you have a lot of people that that’s part of their expectations. So I would love to hear about maybe the old world, the new world, what are the things that you hear? Maybe you can even break it down from, here are things that you should be aware of as an employer, the things that employees are seeking. Let’s just start there.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. It’s a great question. So I want to talk about a little bit during the pandemic. So one of the things that we started doing during pandemic was really encouraging employers. And this is one of the aspects of being employer of choice too, take a step back and take a look at your business and think about the fact that, would you, yourself, want to work for your own business? And before you having any furloughs or anything that, or before going out and hiring anyone new, let’s talk about students and recent grads because employers, large hospital, ENT, any of them that had significant number of furloughed employees, or didn’t opt to hire externs at that time, two years later are having a harder time to retain and attract candidates. And when we talk about recruiting and hiring, it’s a combination of both retaining and recruiting.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
So then when you talk about teleaudiology and remote audiology or remote work, it’s really interesting that you brought that up because we had a client that had, in beginning of 2021, we had remote audiology position with them posted. And it was just such a new concept that we would have candidates applying to just get on the phone and challenge us about the fact that, why are you even talking about this thing? This is such a taboo. Whereas now fast forward, I would say four out of 10 candidates that we talk to, they ask us, is this a remote position? Do you have any remote audiology positions? So it has become a norm. And when we talk to employers, we tell them, is there any way you can possibly integrate some maybe one day a week remote in your practice? Just think about it because the world has changed.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
And some of the other things that we talk to employers that are working towards becoming an employer of choice is the days of having someone staying in your practice until they retire, those days are long gone. So let’s think ahead and always have a plan as to what if someone was going to give you their termination notice, what would you do? And to avoid getting to that point, number one, let’s take a look at the compensation plan that you have. Just because you’re hiring new people, or you’re looking to hire new people, and you’ve had to adjust your compensation to attract new people, doesn’t mean you should ignore your current employees. And we see that so often. We see that a practice is looking to attract new audiologists and they tell us, oh, just go ahead. And you have permission to look from 65 to 95 for base.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
At the same time, you have individuals from the same practice approaching us and say, hey, can you find me a job somewhere else because my base is not good enough. So those are just checkpoints that practice owners, business owners need to have just honest conversations with themselves. Benefits, benefits are so important. And I understand as a small business owner, it is a huge investment, but your employees are your biggest investment at the same time. So if you really are not offering health benefit, you’re not an attractive employer.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
And there are options out there, so you don’t necessarily have to go and find a really expensive plan, a great medical plan. There are government plan, there’s [inaudible 00:15:45]. There’s a plan out there that as an employer, you can offer $500 a month towards your employee’s medical plan, and then they can go purchase in a private market. So there are options out there. But it all starts with an employer taking a step back and thinking, would I ever want to work in my own practice with everything that I have today? Just looking around and say, this is an old office. This is gloomy. It’s not inviting, just having those honest conversations and being able to answer those.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah, I like that too from the standpoint that, again, using the pandemic as a reference point, it was such a good time for, I think the status quo to be challenged. And I think to your point, things that were taboo two, three years ago are now becoming commonplace. Working remote is, especially for all different types of generations, but I know speaking as a young person, I know it’s really popular among young people. And so it’s like, if you’re looking to attract young talent, then you need to really be aware of what are the things that matter to young professionals today, or working parents? All these different things that you want to be able to have time to where you don’t have to have your kid at daycare all five days of the week because we know how expensive daycare is.
Dave Kemp:
So you want to be able to have that flexibility. So I think everything that you’re saying, it resonates. I think everybody can relate to this. And I think the challenge though is as an employer, again, it’s like, you’re already dealing with so much change from a business standpoint. And now it’s like, okay, now I also have to figure out how I’m going to adapt to this new changing landscape as an employer. And I love what you said about your employees are your biggest investments. So I guess, can you speak a little bit about how maybe you’re seeing some of the mindset shifting the benefits of that?
Dave Kemp:
From some of the experiences that you’ve had of placing people in certain places, just curious to hear about in a way that this feels manageable so it’s not some gigantic undertaking that I have to just completely reinvent my entire offering as an employer. How would you, I guess, make this feel more approachable so that there are manageable steps so that you can feel like, all right, I’m making concrete progress toward making myself an employer of choice, but not trying to do everything all at once?
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. Yeah. So the first thing I challenge any employer, not even anyone in hearing healthcare is to ask themselves, if you run into anyone today and you were going to tell them why they should work for you, what would you tell them? Now the interesting thing is… I will make a bet with you. Go ask 10 private practice or even ENT practices, anyone in the industry, they will start by telling you that we have the best patient care experience. We provide the best patient… It all starts with patient which is great. But your employees really, you should have an answer as to why they should work for you.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
If Google was going to start getting into the hearing aid business tomorrow, they’re not going to say, we are the best patient care provider out there. They’re going to their employees, they’re the whatever, the most fun environment. They have their own reason for employees to be part of that organization. Once you have that answer figured out, then think about, we have a list of questions that we recommend any employee to sit down once a year, it’s called, stay interview questions. It’s not meant to be a really structured one-on-one conversation. It’s a very casual conversation for you as a manager, as owner of the business, to sit down and say, so Dave, how are things going?
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Is there anything that you like to see changed here? And encourage the employees to have open and honest conversations with you and see why they’re actually staying and working for you. And once you have those, start having those conversations with your employees, you’ll find out if there is something about the fact that they don’t have a parking spot in the building. Simplest things keep employees happy. It doesn’t have to be this massive thing. And just because three out of five employees don’t need health plan doesn’t mean the other two doesn’t need it as well. It’s just that they haven’t mentioned it to. So start by having that conversation and then do something with the feedback, and don’t get super defensive about the feedback that you’re getting. Don’t take all 20 feedbacks and try to implement it. Take three of them.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
We have this rule of three. So take three and try to create a plan and implement it. So vacation, PTO time, those are the simplest things. There are businesses out there that don’t offer vacation or PTO, or there’s six months waiting period. Just be flexible with your employees. So that, and then the other thing is, if you’re looking to hire an audiologist, think about the fact that a lot of recent grads have this massive student debt. So there are options out there. You, as an employer, you can contribute towards a student loan payment and help your audiologist, rather, get out of debt faster. And that provides a sense of dedication to your practice, to your business because that’s the reason for them to work for you, be part of your team, then the other retail location or somewhere else down the road.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
And in fact, as a business owner, it is a tax incentive for you. And through 2024, you can contribute up to $5,200, $5,240, I believe towards an employee’s benefit, student loan payoff, rather. And it doesn’t go towards their gross wage. So it’s a huge benefit you can do, $200, $400 per paycheck, and it just creates a lot of stickiness. So then we talk about compensation. So compensation, you can look at base salary, data and everything on salary.com, all those places. The best place is on Bureau of Labor Statistics, BLS. They have the data right there. You’ll be surprised to see how many students we talk to and they know the numbers this. But the employers are still stuck back in so many years ago when they graduated from school numbers. So know the numbers and be competitive. You have to meet the base for your market, or you’re just not going to be able to attract and then retain your existing employees.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
So there are three things so far. So benefit, and when we talk about benefit, we talk about total compensation, I should say. The total comp includes benefits, PTO and if you can do 401k, that would be great too. And then we talk about contributing to their student loan, if that’s an option, and then salary. And let’s talk about employee manual. So the whole onboarding of a new employee, again, take a step back. Think about the first day you joined a new business. It’s a scary process because you entering a new environment and you practice, a new employer, a new group of people. You have to have a checklist in place and you have to have an employee manual. So those are basically non-negotiables from our point of view. Yeah.
Dave Kemp:
I think that you’ve already laid out a bunch of different aspects of this that I think people should be aware of. And like you said, it’s like, understanding where the prospective people that you’re looking to hire, what are their reference points? They’re looking at the Bureau Labor of Statistics and meanwhile, you are rooted in some archaic, maybe antiquated, type of measurement of what your compensation rate should be. So you’re literally speaking two different languages in a sense. So turning the tables a little bit to talk about… So I think that that was a really comprehensive overview of some things that you should think about as an employer. But for employees, especially within this industry right now, like you said, there’s a lot of issues around student debt.
Dave Kemp:
So I think that’s a huge thing that I think young professionals need to be really conscious of. And I know that most of them are is, okay, how are you going to dig yourself out of debt and what are the best ways in which you can do that? And then just in addition to that, just there’s a lot of transition going on right now in this industry. A lot of different people moving in and out of different roles and different companies and all that. So I guess just now appealing to that particular audience, what are some things that you think they should be aware of right now in the current landscape from… I guess, where are you seeing opportunities that might not initially be top of mind that you have to usually bring and surface to their attention?
Dave Kemp:
And say, did you ever think about doing this? I know that a lot of incoming audiologists, young professionals, a lot of the times, they’re like, I want to get into pediatrics or I want to do something in whatever. But what I don’t often hear is, I want to get into private practice. So I’m curious, why is that? And so just, I’d be curious to get your thoughts on the environment right now, where maybe some of the opportunities are. And just some things to think about as somebody that might be moving or looking to move into a new role.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
It’s interesting that you mentioned pediatrics because this year specifically, and I have the exact breakdown because we keep track of everything in our system, but I want to say it’s somewhere around 60, upper 60 percentile of the externs and recent grads coming out this year that we have talked to, they want to go to a practice that does pediatric and cochlear. And it’s so crazy to me. And with that, the follow up comment is an ENT practice is a preferred. So it’s mind blowing to me how… And it wasn’t like this last year or the years before. It’s just growing, the number of the students that are more interested into doing pediatrics and cochlear, not that there’s anything wrong with it. But the more we talk to students, what we’re finding out is they have had a really good internship or experiences, but it hasn’t been enough to satisfy them.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
So they want to go to a practice so they can continue doing whatever they think that it is… It’s the part that they’re really excited about, so they want to continue practicing that. My advice to externs, recent grads, is select your job based on two things. Number one, the biggest thing is that the first job that you select is not going to be, most likely the job you’re going to stay forever. Now, if you stay there, that is amazing. That means that you have found an amazing employer. You have moved to a great city. It’s perfect. But typically, year two or year three, we see candidates that they’re like, hey, I’m ready. I’m ready to do something else. I thought I really want to do ENT, but I want to do private practice. I really want to do something else.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
So with that, make your decision based on two things. One, compensation, that way you have couple years that you can pay off some of your debt, get out of the hole and then go find the job that you really want to do. Number two, you know you already like pediatric and cochlear. Then, find the areas that you may not be as skilled, you might not have had as much experience. So go and get experience in those areas. That way in a year or two, you are a fully developed full 360 degree experiences, and you can get the next job.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
And if you end up going somewhere that they have everything you were looking for, that’s great. But don’t put yourself in a block because the crazy thing is that we have about 320, 350 externs that we work with we had started working with for this year. Out of those, you would think all of them are still open to find the position. Of course there’s more externs out there, but out of that, they’re only 120 or so that are open. The rest of them have already accepted the position. So if you think employers are waiting to hire, they’re not. They are finding the next person that fits their culture, their practice, their patient needs, and they are hiring them. They’re making offers. And yeah.
Dave Kemp:
I just think that’s really interesting that there’s a gravitational pull right now toward those things. And should we, as an industry, be concerned do you think about the lack of interest around private practice?
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Oh my gosh, absolutely. So there are days that I think to myself, maybe I should come up with something out there, a program that encourages and creates for students to go towards private practice or hearing aid manufacturers. They can do a lot. They have a lot of power in the industry. And it all comes down to, at least from what we see, to where the students spends time in which practice they go to. I understand that in larger practices, in ENT practices, they have the bandwidth, they have the manpower, woman power, to have externs, but they also end up absorbing them in those same practices. So it’s a big problem.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. Well, I think that there’s probably an element of the notion that I think the root of this boils down to a lot of people don’t want to feel they’re sales people. And I think there’s a connotation that if I own a business, then I’m inherently going to be a salesperson. And so it’s like, I think though that what I’ve really learned is that there are some of the most successful private practitioners that I know would not consider themselves to be salespeople, because it’s more like it’s just the nature of their business. It doesn’t come across as if they’re selling, even though all of us are always selling. And so I think that there is an element of that. And so I do wonder if, especially with some of the younger professionals, that they are maybe intimidated by this idea that I don’t really want to go in and have to be dependent upon the amount of business that I bring in.
Dave Kemp:
And however successful I am is all dependent upon how many people I can sell. Whereas in a hospital or an ENT setting, a lot of these patients are going to just come to me one way or another. So I can just be altruistic and help them that way. But I do think that the argument that I would make for private practice based upon the people that I know and all of the successful practices out there is by being your own boss, you can shape the way in which you are a provision of care.
Dave Kemp:
And so you can really dictate, here is exactly how I see this role of the audiologist looking when everything flows through me. So I just think that there might be… I can see why some people might be turned off, I guess, by the idea of private practice. I’m curious as to why it feels like there’s a sudden rush of people moving in the opposite direction now. And I think that it begs the question of, how as almost a brand, can private practice salvage itself? What’s the answer there, and I’m not quite sure I know the answer.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. I don’t know either, but I also wonder, and I’ve reached out to a few individuals just to see if they can give me any insight. But I do wonder if subconsciously most recent grads think that by going to a large hospital system or larger ENT practice, their position is safe if there’s going to be another round of layoffs, furlough and things that. Whereas in smaller practice, that’s not an option. The other thing is this year, more than ever, we have the incoming audiologists. They are so savvy when it comes to health plans, benefits, employers contribution percentage, if it’s employee only or family and 401k percentages. And that’s one of the things that we see in larger organizations. They have better health benefit plans. So our approach has always been, listen, don’t say no to a position. You can always find ways to negotiate. So go with what you really want to do. Find, check those boxes and then make the decision. Don’t say immediately, no.
Dave Kemp:
I had a really good conversation. So this is for anybody that’s listening that is digging this topic and you want more, I highly recommend listening to the episode I did with Ashley Hughes because we had a whole conversation. And she’s really an expert in this whole collaborative negotiation space. And she really touched on what you said there which is this is very much as an employee, you have leverage and so it’s a negotiation. You can come in. And I think that actually, as I think through this as we’re talking, you’re saying something very interesting, which is going full circle to what you said about being an employer of choice. And that coincides now with a generation, I think. I think it is generational where they are so savvy and it’s actually representative of everyone today is just becoming more savvy.
Dave Kemp:
Look at your patients. How much more educated are your patients that are coming through your doors about, are you performing real ear measurement? They know what that is now. And they have a really good understanding of best practices, the kind of technology, there’s more transparency than ever on certain price points and stuff like that. So I feel like you see this every single day with your patients. You should understand that you’re seeing the same thing in the labor market as well with the people that you’re trying to hire because they’re really read up on this. They know, here are the things that I should be really well aware of. Here’s the types of benefits that exist. We’re also talking about a generation that’s more indebted with student loans than ever.
Dave Kemp:
So of course they’re going to be… Their back’s up against the wall more so than ever of having to be really cognizant of the things that matter most and being able to make sure that they navigate this properly. And so I guess this is an appeal to the private practices out there is, you got to talk to Shadi. But you got to be really well versed in the things that matter. And I think that this whole concept of being an employer of choice is important and is going to increasingly become more and more important as time goes on because I do think that you look at these macro trends, remote work and how much more conducive everything is toward that now. It’s becoming easier and easier as an employee to find work. And so, unless you’re a really desirable target of employment, I think you’re going to be left with having a harder and harder time finding people to fill these roles because they have options.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah, you’re completely right. They have options. And the other thing that, Dave, we are noticing is… And it started, I would say towards the August graduates last year, that the new workforce, they’re actually asking us about the employer’s employment practices, if they’re a equal employer which I’ve never seen anyone asking about that. They would just go do research and figure out if the employer is a good or bad employer, and they would ask us not as openly. We are an LGBTQ business enterprise and I am amazed at how many candidates just openly ask us, hey, is the employer an LGBTQ friendly employer? If they’re not, I don’t want to even apply. So those things matter to the newer generation. They ask us about their patient base. Hey, how’s the patient base? They are so involved with everything that’s going on around them.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
And it’s going to matter when they look at your business profile, when they look at your business presence. The same way you will go and look at their social profile, they’ll do the same thing on you. So we look at the clicks that a candidate does before we go through the interview on all the links and hyperlinks that we embed in the job posting. And they do their research. They do the research on the owner, every employee in the practice, and then they consider, hmm, do I really want to work for this person? Or do I want to work for someone else? So they have options. Employees have options and employers have less options and you just have to make the smart choice.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. I completely understand too as supply and demand. Everything’s always supply and demand and it’s a pendulum. It swings in different directions and right now you’re right. It very much is an employee driven decision more or less. And so I do think that a lot of this is new. I think that’s really important to understand is that what matters now… It’s like you got hit with a double whammy because you have generationally speaking things that historically hadn’t mattered. That’s not even the right way to say it. It’s things that weren’t top of mind maybe are top of mind now.
Dave Kemp:
And then also you have the pandemic which ushered in entirely new norms and pulled things forward where you have people that look at their current job and they say, I want more work life balance. And I’m actually now the number one priority that I have is going to be that I have two days a week that I can be at home and work remote. And so unless you’re able to, I think, be adaptable to these new conditions that a lot of employees want in a market that is skewing more toward the labor side right now. I think that you just have to be adaptable. I think that’s the moral of the story.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. And employers of choice, we identify them with six core principles, six core values. They are consistent. So it doesn’t matter whatever they do, they do it with everything in their business and in their practice. They’re creative. So when there’s a solution, there’s a problem. They’ll come up with… When there’s a problem, there’s a solution. So they come up with a solution for it. They are competitive. It doesn’t mean that they have a competitive compensation. No, not necessarily. It just means that they want to be known as one of the best employers out there. They want to have a nice clean environment. They’re just competitive in nature. They’re innovative, means that they find new technology, they’re up with trends. And then they’re flexible. So with the work from home, remote, they’ll find a way to do things. And then they’re adaptable so with everything that’s going on, they’re able to make changes and move forward. Nothing is going to stop them.
Dave Kemp:
So one last topic that I want to talk a little bit about is on this idea of what I consider to be I guess ancillary workers or adjacent workers. I have this notion in my mind that one way in which this industry is going to evolve is that you’re going to see… I think you’re going to see the industry… The demand for this type of professional will actually expand. And I think that with an expanding market of demand, it’s going to mean more patients. And so as more patients come through your door, I think that’s going to start to beg the question of how do you service all these people? Some of these people might not be full blown gold star, like that person’s going to buy hearing aids from me. And I’m going to make a lot of money on this person, but there might be a lot of opportunity around service based business.
Dave Kemp:
I think as this industry continues to move in a lot of different directions. And so my question really is, you have hearing instrument specialists, you have front office staff, you have technicians, you have non audiologists that I think are going to become increasingly more important to figure out how do you employ people that aren’t necessarily audiologists, but that can do a lot of, not necessarily just administrative work, but a lot of that… The type of work that doesn’t necessarily warrant the audiologist to be present, but it’s still something that’s hearing health related. So I’m curious to get your thoughts on that particular side of the market, things that you’re seeing with those type of workers.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. So finding patient care coordinators, front office and audiology techs is actually one of the favorite things to do for us. And in fact, whenever there’s a position like that, the team in the office is like, oh, I want to help. I want to help. Because from my point of view, if the practice is open to having growth potential for that individual, it is an amazing job. And I always compare to the optical tech at the practice that I go to. She always takes care of replacing the lens, taking care of me buying a new pair of glasses, whatever it is. She has the fun job. And she also answers the phone. She’s the point of contact. And she’s the one that I look forward to seeing, and I hope she’s on commission. So that’s the position I look forward to working with.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
So PCCs are extremely underutilized I think in practices. If the audiologist is willing to share some of the knowledge, some of the information and help get them started, maybe with cleaning check or some of those things, they have bandwidth and ability to do more than just answering phones and everything. And then audiology techs are… Not a lot of practices, unfortunately, use audiology practice aud techs, and I think it’s because some states have an actual programming place and some states don’t. So it is all dependent on the owner of the practice and the audiologist in the practice to spend time and create a development and growth path.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
But that’s the thing. If there is not a growth and development path for that PCC front office or those in entry level positions, what’s to look forward to? If you have that stay interview with those individuals, they’re going to tell you, well, there’s nothing to look forward to in this job. There’s no growth. There’s no next step. So we always talk to our clients when they ask us, hey, I’m adding a new PCC. We ask them, what is the growth potential? If we find someone that is driven, motivated, and wants to make all the differences in the world, are you open to teaching them stuff and they’ll become your aud tech or eventually getting their HIS.
Dave Kemp:
So I’ve heard a few examples of just meeting people and them telling me about that exact situation. And to me, that seems like a really, really smart game plan because I think that, again, it’s like, we’re already looking at an environment where it’s hard to find good talent. So maybe the playbook is grow some of your own talent in a sense. Right. And I love what you’re saying there too. If you can come up with some sort of growth, a development plan, and actually really go through your calendar of any given week and really identify, here is every single patient interaction that I met with. And be honest with yourself and say, what of this could I truly delegate?
Dave Kemp:
And then I think reverse engineer it and say, okay, well what’s the path that I need to bring my people up to speed to be able to do those different things? I think that it actually solves two things. One, I think it’s a retention strategy, an employee retention strategy, because it gives them, like you said, something to look forward to. It gives them a sense of growth. And then the other is I think that it gives you a lot more flexibility of figuring out, here’s where I actually need help that can only be done by an AUD or some sort of licensed medical professional. And really be able to see, actually I probably don’t… I do need help, but I don’t actually need help from an AUD. I need help that’s more of this administrative type thing. So I think it’s an interesting exercise that everybody should maybe be thinking about.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
And think about it from your front office or your employee’s point of view. If someone like me was going to reach out to them and say, hey, I have another opening down the road. Would you to talk to me? They would probably say, no, thank you because I have growth opportunity here, and I am getting trained to become whatever. Whereas the position you’re telling me, I’m just going to answer the phones and be in a stagnant position, especially in rural locations where it’s so hard to find a talent that’s going to pack their life and move across the country. Take advantage of your existing PCC.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Or they may know someone that would like to come to the office, start working as a PCC and then become your right hand person. I always say this to one person practice. If you’re one audiologist or one [HIS 00:51:20] and you’re looking to hire that first person which is the scariest thing, and let’s find you someone. Don’t hire one PCC, one HIS, all at the same time. Let’s hire you a PCC that is driven and is going to help you with everything else so you can empty some of your calendar and your time, open up some time. And that person also can get trained to become an HIS or whatever, then you’ll hire someone else.
Dave Kemp:
Well, I love that too because you can make that part of the pitch. I’m going to help you to graduate into this role. And I think that from a career development standpoint, that’s going to be really appealing to people is part of the reason why I want to join this job is that I’m actually being given a clear defined path toward my next career in advancement that’s not just a promotion and not just a bump in my salary. I’m actually going to become a hearing instrument specialist which is applicable for our industry. Right. But I think that applies to lots of different walks of life out there is that’s the kind of stuff that matters to people that are the kind of employees that you probably want to hire in the first place because they’re motivated and driven.
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yes, yes. 100%.
Dave Kemp:
So as we come to a close here, super fascinating conversation. I just find this whole, your perspective so interesting because of where you sit. So closing thoughts, anything else that is on your mind as it relates to where you sit and how you sort of see the industry moving right now?
Shadi Chakoutahi:
Yeah. So I have concerns and I have things that I look forward to. My biggest concern is what we already talked about. The fact that a lot of younger talents, recent grads coming to the industry, they’re not moving towards private practice. So I would love to do what it takes with whoever brainstorm and do something to help that. As far as what I see, I’m excited because I am seeing also a lot of practices going out of their way to change the ways they have done things to become more exciting employer, more open employers. I have unlimited vacation policy because I don’t want to keep track of it. It’s unlimited.And I talk about it to a lot of our clients and it’s exciting to see a lot of our clients are adapting that. They are open to getting their employer handbook figured out. So I’m seeing a lot of positive movement in private practices to become more attractive towards newer were generation of audiologists. So I’m happy about that.
Dave Kemp:
That’s awesome. Well, I’m really glad that you came on. I think it’s so cool that you set off on your own and you saw a gap in the market. I just find those stories to be so interesting when somebody sees something and then they take it upon themselves to say, you know what? I’m not the only one that knows this to be something. That there’s something here and you did and you pursued it. And I think that it’s really cool. And I’m hoping for the best for Staffing Proxy. So for anybody that’s out there listening that is interested in learning more about Shadi’s company and getting in touch with her, where should they connect with you?
Shadi Chakoutahi:
LinkedIn is where all the recruiters, we live and die on LinkedIn. So [inaudible 00:54:53] LinkedIn profile is ready and good to go. But our website is StaffingProxy.com. You can send us an email at hello@staffingproxy.com as well.
Dave Kemp:
Awesome, Shadi. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for everybody who tuned in here to the end, and we will chat with you next time. Cheers.
Dave Kemp:
Thanks for tuning in today. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Future Ear Radio. For more content like this, just head over to futurear.co where you can read all the articles that I’ve been writing these past few years on the worlds of voice technology and hearables and how the two are beginning to intersect. Thanks for tuning in and I’ll chat with you next time.
