This week’s episode of the Future Ear Radio podcast features Dr. Natalie Phillips and Dr. Angela Alexander. The three of us discuss the hot new social audio app, Clubhouse, which Angela and Natalie have been using extensively the last few months. During this conversation, we go through the ins-and-outs of the app, discussing how it works, and exploring ways that we think audiologists and hearing industry professionals can utilize the app for personal and professional growth.
Since Natalie and Angela are audiologists and have been on the app for months, I figured that these two would help to guide myself and the listeners through what they’ve learned from their experience and how they’re now thinking about the app more broadly for themselves, our industry, and ultimately hearing aid wearers. These two provided fantastic commentary and insight that I hope will resonate with the listeners as much at it did for me.
My Takeaways:
- I’m not sure if Clubhouse will ultimately win out, but I definitely think it represents one of the future directions that social media apps will head, which is social + audio. We’re entering into an era where hundreds of millions of AirPods & the like are flooding into the market, which will ultimately incentivize audio-specific apps to be built. We should expect a lot more apps that utilize the big building blocks that an AirPods-filled world yields: hundreds of millions of people wearing ear pieces that allow for real-time communication + passive content consumption + geo-location specific features.
- I’ve been feeling for some time that augmented reality will be ushered in via our ears before our eyes. AR glasses or goggles would require a huge societal behavior change, while we’re already underway with outfitting our ears with AR earbuds. Clubhouse has really reinforced this thought for me. The first big aha! moment I had with Clubhouse was that this app is effectively a portal to the, “Metaverse.” The ability to surf around into different rooms and interact with so many people in real-time, with each others’ voices actually feels a bit like magic. I need to write a full-fledged essay on this.
- Hearing aid wearers are in an incredibly unique position whereby they get to benefit from all the applications and functionality being built for the consumer market. Therefore, we as an industry should be recognizing the increasing amount of consumer applications being built on the back of the AirPod-boom, which medical devices like hearing aids can take full advantage of as well. We as an industry are indirect beneficiaries of a titanic shift in the consumer attention economy that’s quickly migrating to our ears.
- One of my favorite portions of this discussion was about personal brand building and serving as an ambassador for one’s profession. Angela mentioned that she’s met a lot of physicians through Clubhouse, allowing her to build in-roads with the broader medical community and raise awareness about key issues we’re facing as an industry. Natalie has used the app in a similar capacity, building bridges with other entrepreneurs and innovators, and partaking in knowledge sharing across industries. I understood the potential here for professionals to link up with like-minded industry colleagues on any given topic, but was struck by the sheer potential of networking outside of one’s industry as well.
- This is all so nascent. We’re going to see so much innovation layered onto this space and so many different use cases and applications spawned around this space. My big hope is that in the same way we’re seeing accessibility being a more prominent focus within the “new norms” of video chat, I hope the same follows suit for these audio-specific applications. There’s a huge opportunity here for companies to enable sound profiles and “digital hearing aids” to augment the sound coming from the one to match one’s hearing profile.
-Thanks for Reading-
Dave
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Dave Kemp:
All right, so we are joined here today by Dr. Natalie Phillips and Dr. Angela Alexander. Natalie, why don’t you tell us who you are and what you do.
Natalie Phillips:
All right. Well, thank you so much, Dave, for having both of us on. It’s so exciting to be here and to talk about one of our favorite things, I’m sure lately, but I am an audiologist out in Fort Collins, Colorado at Advanced Otolaryngology & Audiology, so most of you have maybe seen one of our shows, All Things Odd, where we just try to get education and awareness out there. I am passionate about inspiring individuals and businesses to also make authentic connections online and in-person. The connection piece definitely came as an audiologist, right?
Natalie Phillips:
With all of us being in the hearing community, we’re not just getting people to hear better, but we’re getting them to listen and then connect. I am huge on connections and I love helping people make better connections online and in-person, and I help people connect to a bigger audience on social media at events, and I highlight them doing good in the world with my podcast. It’s been exciting because not only am I all about connection, but I’m all about taking action. With my new book that’s released, it’s definitely trying to get people to get off their bottoms and get out there, do what they say they’re going to do, take action, and reach their greatest goals and dreams. So, I’m all about connection and action.
Dave Kemp:
I love that. That’s great. Angela.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
Awesome. I’ve got to say, Natalie, you walk the walk and talk the talk. I am so proud of you. I am Angela Loucks Alexander. I’m originally from Kansas, but I currently live in Sunshine Coast, Australia. I’m an impact social startup entrepreneur. That means that I have two businesses that benefit people, planet, and profit. My online businesses are Auditory Processing Institute, where I teach online masterclasses for audiologists and speech language pathologists to both evaluate and treat auditory processing disorder, and then apdsupport.com, which is a series of online ear workouts for adults to increase their auditory skills.
Dave Kemp:
I love that. Well, very cool. Thank you two very much for joining me. You’re both highly impressive with the way that I think you’ve leveraged the internet and all of the different facets of it, social media, and that’s going to be the gist of the conversation today, is to talk about a new app that is sort of taking the world by storm right now, which is Clubhouse. This is I think a really interesting app for us in particular in this industry, as it is very audio oriented. It’s an audio-first social app. So, the first thing that comes to my mind is all of the patients with their hearing aids, that’s more or less a portal into this app.
Dave Kemp:
These two, I’ve been connected to Natalie for a while, and I’ve recently gotten connected to Angela through just some of these different Facebook groups, where we share some of the different podcasts that we’re creating and listening to, so shout out to Abraham Bailey for putting that one together, but this has been a topic of discussion that’s come up more and more lately, is like, hey, are you on Clubhouse? And more and more people are joining it. I think that it’s an eye-opening experience where you see that this is a really interesting forum in a number of different ways.
Dave Kemp:
I wanted to bring these two on today, as they’re both on Clubhouse, they’ve been using it for a while. I think they have a really good finger on the pulse of what this type of tool represents and how we as an industry can be thinking of it. Let’s kick things off by talking about how professionals can use them, how professionals can use Clubhouse for themselves from a professional standpoint. Natalie, let’s start with you, because I know that you do a lot of personal brand building, and I think that you use it in a really interesting way where you can use a lot of what you’re passionate about to help to build bridges and be an expert in all the things that you are, but use your expertise and become a liaison into some of these different groups and personal brand yourself in those groups. Let’s just start there.
Natalie Phillips:
Yeah. That’s an interesting way of putting it. My outlook is always trying to learn as much as I can and getting myself out there, and it doesn’t matter if it’s in audiology, it doesn’t matter if it’s another industry. I always use the automotive industry as one of my biggest breakout moments, I think, because attending an automotive conference, and I was asked to attend, it showed me so much about sales and connections, and video use, and things that we weren’t using an audiology.
Dave Kemp:
Fascinating.
Natalie Phillips:
From just putting myself out there and not feeling really comfortable in attending, but doing it anyway, it made me learn so much outside of our industry in order to bring it back into our industry and use it. When I first heard about Clubhouse, it was the same thing. Not a lot of audiologists were on there. I think I put it out there to ask if anybody was on there. Just curious. Yeah, because I was curious to see who was out there, but at the same time, we weren’t out there yet, and we’re still kind of trickling in.
Natalie Phillips:
I just got Dave Fabry, just got Doug Beck on, which is awesome, but it’s one of those things where we are at the cusp of technology with our patients, and so we’ve got to keep up with this stuff. The way that I use it is I do go into rooms that I am interested in, whether it’s social media, whether it’s networking, whether it is breakfast with champions, and having the confidence to know that you’re there just to learn. You don’t have to put your input in. You can raise your hand, you can jump up on stage. Your friends might see you and pull you up on stage as well. Do it. Just get out there and do it. Get over that whole hump of, oh man, I’m not sure if I should be here yet.
Natalie Phillips:
You should be here. You’ve already arrived. You’re minus will go up there, and then figure it out as you go. That is my philosophy in getting around Clubhouse. If there is maybe something that I can input in for audiology, or maybe I can input in as in the medical field, then yeah, I’ll raise my hand. If it’s something that I want to talk about with women’s empowerment, yep, I’ll raise my hand. I’ll say something. Having that audio-first, that audio-only, it’s very cool because it takes away, on Instagram, everybody’s like looking at you and checking all your pictures out and everything like that.
Natalie Phillips:
There’s nothing to look at, but your face and your bio, and you can go out into Instagram and Twitter and check everything else out, or direct message somebody. But having that audio, I was explaining it to somebody in a room, I love Twitter. I love Twitter because I was able to reach out to people that I would’ve never been able to reach out ever, and Clubhouse just upped the ante for me, because having that voice with us, I think we can tell by listening to somebody’s voice, who they really are, no matter if they say words or not, but their authenticity comes out with their message of what they’re doing when they show up in this few seconds that they have to talk.
Natalie Phillips:
That just is like, wow, that person is really, really cool. I don’t care if you’re an entertainer. I don’t care if you are Grant Cardone and you own millions and millions of dollars. These people are showing up, dropping wisdom, sharing and helping each other out, and that is why I like the app because you can filter through and you can swim your way through different rooms and peek in and leave when you want to. But being able to see how everybody has been so cohesive and collaborative, and they connect really, really quick. That’s what’s been so exciting with the way that I’ve been using Clubhouse.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. I think that’s fascinating. I realize now what we need to do is we need to really explain this app, because some people that are listening don’t fully know it, but Natalie, I want to circle back after Angela’s had a chance to explain the app because she knows it best, and talk about how she’s used it because you made a couple points there that I really, really want to expand upon. But before I do that, Angela, why don’t you share exactly what this app is and how you’ve been using it because I think you really might be the biggest power user of like anyone I know.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
That’s awesome. Okay. Let’s back at this from a larger perspective. It’s almost like being on an airplane with super cool people. All right, so you go … We’ve all had this experience where we’re flying alone, we sit down, and the person next to us is on fire. Not literally [crosstalk 00:09:13], but like they have a lot of cool things to say, and you have a lot in common and so you just get into this flow of conversation that’s really easy, and you’re adding on to each other. Well, here’s the crazy thing.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
Clubhouse is an audio-only … It’s like an audio chat room only app. When you first join the app, you see a whole bunch of different rooms that are available, and it’s almost like you’re going to a conference and you’re like, oh, I want to go into this room or that room. You click in, and all you see are faces with names. On the very top part of the app, there are people who are on stage, and they’re “stage” and they’re the ones who are able to speak. Then there are people who are just in the audience who can be brought up to speak. If we’re thinking back on that airplane analogy that I just did, sometimes you’re just talking to the person next to you because your room is so small, it’s just two of you in it, and sometimes you’re on stage speaking to the entire plane.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
All right. Now, like Natalie said a moment ago, you can actually leave the room. This would be awkward on a plane, just jump right out of a plane, get onto another plane mid-flight, it’s fine, and you can go see what is happening in other rooms. I’ve been in rooms with MC Hammer and Paris Hilton, and Grant Cardone, and even a fake Tony Robbins yesterday. That was exciting. All right. Yeah, does that give you a good sense, Dave?
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. No, I think that’s great. I think, with you in the way that you’re using it, I think it’s really fascinating where you can use this in so many different ways, and I think we’ll talk about all the different ways we can think of as we should be thinking about this type of app. What this app really represents, which again, like you both mentioned, it’s an audio first app where you can pull this app up, it can be running in the background, like Natalie said, you can be on Instagram. You can be bouncing around through different apps on your phone, and you’re basically still consuming this conversation that others are having, and you’re just a fly on the wall.
Dave Kemp:
Or you can be brought up on stage and you’re participating, and so on and so forth. This idea that you’re passively consuming this app, I think is a really important point that ties into the broader point about hearing aids and how this can be used with hearing aids. But I want to get into this idea of like, as an industry, again, starting as professionals using it, and how professionals can … I think one of the big trends that I’m noticing that’s really encouraging in the industry right now is that more like-minded individuals are seeming to connect with one another, whether it be through Facebook, or it be through different social apps.
Dave Kemp:
It just seems to be that I’m really passionate about this particular facet of the industry and now you’re starting to find the other people that are really passionate about that. I think this is what’s really cool about this is, for you Angela, with APD, I think that, that’s a very particular niche within the industry, that there are probably multiple other hearing professionals out there that are really passionate about this too. This can be a really effective tool, to not only identify who those other people are, but to have regular conversations.
Dave Kemp:
Kind of going off of the analogy of whether it be an airplane or it be a conference, it’s like, rather than having to wait that one conference that you’re going to speak at every year, you could be doing this every single week. You can make it so that this is a reoccurring thing, we’re going to all get together, and we’re going to have a conversation about APD, or whatever it is that you feel passionate about, you want to kind of lead those discussions. Talk about how you’re envisioning this being used as a way to really move the ball forward with any given topic that you’re really passionate about.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
That’s awesome. I’ll take this one first, Natalie. Clubhouse is more about people than it is about product. It’s all about that inner personal communication, and I have big dreams and big goals for the awareness of auditory processing disorder. What Clubhouse has allowed me to do is it’s helped me find my voice. It has also helped me connect with people I never would have spoken to in my life. Suddenly, here I’m able to broadcast my message to anyone who is wanting to listen to it. I think it’s going to be very interesting to see what they do in order to monetize the platform, but basically, if you have something authentic to say, and if you can do it in an elegant way, you’re going to land right.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
If you don’t, I mean, I have heard people trying to sell on there and it just falls completely flat. Natalie, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts.
Natalie Phillips:
Yeah, absolutely. I love how you said it’s about people and not product, because I totally totally agree. Dave, when you brought up manufacturers, I was thinking same thing. Yeah, that would be really cool to show up and maybe have a room, and I was imagining the conference type of setting that you were saying, where they could have it every week. Maybe audiologists will tune in. Maybe other people consumers would tune in as well. But as long as you are naming these rooms, which is what Angela said are these airplanes, or if you’re at a conference and you’re sticking your head in, very clearly to make sure that that is the intention of what that room is going to be about, then I think you’re okay.
Natalie Phillips:
Angela, I want to hear what you have to say too, but I don’t necessarily see manufacturers coming on here and doing like a manufacturer update. You could probably do it, you could do it, but at the same time, and you could probably reach people outside of audiology that might kind of pop their head in, but at the same time, I think that’s a little more product, like you were saying, than the people. Now, if a manufacturer, I was in a … I love this group it’s called Talk Nerdy to Me. Okay. I was in this group because they were saying something … Their title was … It’s a club. Okay? So, defining a little bit more about Clubhouse. You can start a room on your own and then you invite people in. You can have moderators that join you in.
Natalie Phillips:
It’s what Angela said, where you have got speakers on the top, you’ve got people followed by the speakers kind of in the middle, and then everybody else that follows at the end at the bottom part of the page. Then you can have a club. Well, I think you can only have a club if you’ve hosted and moderated rooms for a while. Then you’ve got to actually apply and be approved, which takes about two to three weeks or so. Once you have a club though, you can, it’s labeled as a club, you can follow club so that anytime this club actually has another topic, then you get pinged like, oh, this club is talking about this.
Natalie Phillips:
The club, Talk Nerdy to Me, that’s the club, and the topic of that night was wearable tech, and of course, I was like, ooh, I’m all over this one. I’m just going to sit and listen. I joined in and I was listening. This is how much sometimes multitasking is actually in your favor, if you can do it. I was listening and they were talking. They were getting really close to hearing aids, but there’s no way that you can comment unless you raise your hand and jump up on stage, but there is somewhat of an etiquette as well. So, you’ve got to enter in a room and you’ve got to feel out, how are they running this room?
Natalie Phillips:
Sometimes it’s just moderators that are talking to each other, and then they say, all right, we’re opening up the hand raising for audience members to raise their hand to talk, and then you enter in, or sometimes they bring as many people up as they want to, and then you have this discussion, but even if I’m brought up and I didn’t start the room, I am still trying to be as considerate as possible, mute my mic when I get on that stage, and not really talk unless called upon, or if I have something really that I want to say.
Natalie Phillips:
I was down in the audience and I was listening to that, and I was like, oh man, they’re getting so close to talking about wearable tech. I’m all over this. I wasn’t paying … I mean, like you said, I could have it in the background, so I was doing other things at the same time, and then I thought, you know what? That’s super cool, but I don’t really want to jump up on stage. I think what I’m going to do since this woman actually tweets out what they’re saying. I’ve been in that room where they were dropping tech apps, and she’s tweeting out all the tech apps that people are bringing up on stage just to share, or the hacks.
Natalie Phillips:
She was saying, “I’m tweeting everything that we’re saying.” I was like, you know what? I’m just going to jump over to Twitter and I’ll just answer her on this, and just say, hey, did you know that we also have hearing aids that have fall detection sensors with gyroscopes in it, and blah, blah, blah, and I said it out, and then I kind of went back into the app, and it was like ping, she brought you up on stage. I was like, oh crap. I was like, I thought I just told her on Twitter. I thought that was enough, but she brought me up right away, and I was like, oh man.
Natalie Phillips:
Anytime somebody pings me on stage, if I’m available, which is most of the times, because I’m tuning in anyway, I will jump up there. I’m not going to dismiss it and say, no, I’m not going to do it. You just get up there and you just say what you need to say. Be very respectful. But I did. I jumped up there. I basically said the same thing I said in my tweet, and I didn’t want to take up a lot of time. Then she just picked me back down to the audience. If manufacturers come out and they are the experts in something like that, like wearable tech, that would be awesome.
Natalie Phillips:
Because what they’re doing is, instead of holding a room where, hey, look at all this cool technology that we’re going to release, but if they were in a room that said, so in addition to these wearable techs and these futurists that are on here talking, did you know that we also have this? And that’s all it is, and it’s mostly just getting people to be aware of that. That way, maybe whoever’s listening in the audience can say, go back to their family member or their friend, and say, “Hey, I was just on this Clubhouse thing, and did you know hearing aids do this right now?” That’s all that you’d want. I feel like if manufacturers take that type of stance, it might be a little more accepted. I don’t know. Angela, what do you think about that as well?
Angela Loucks Alexander:
Yeah, absolutely. In fact, okay. Doubling back, Talk Nerdy to Me is the most amazing club. You’ve got X in there, and she works for Google making sure that AI isn’t being racist, which is amazing. Then the moderator in that group, her name is Amanda Johnstone. Everyone’s going to know about her. She is one of the best moderators in all of Clubhouse, so definitely recommend looking her up. Doug Beck and I will be speaking in a few on how music and science intertwine on Clubhouse. So, really excited. We’ll be speaking for Talk Nerdy to Me.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
I completely agree with what you’re saying, Natalie. The way that a manufacturer would do this, it would need to be elegant. I think they’re going to either have industry experts, and these may not be reps. These are probably going to be the people who are helping research and design because people want to dig really deep. Then I actually think that a way manufacturers could use it is utilizing influencers. So, they’re like, okay, you are going to be able to get tickets to this room. They’re talking about monetizing the rooms, closing them off and you have to pay to get in. This is where it’s going to happen, is they’re going to say, whoa, come listen to this. They’ve done like a Lion King live this way through Clubhouse, where you had to have tickets. Crazy. But yeah, what do you think about that?
Dave Kemp:
Well, I got a lot of thoughts here. First of all, after hearing you guys talk, I agree. I think that there’s different audiences. If we’re talking about the message with the manufacturer, so we keep saying manufacturer, hearing aid manufacturers, or hearable manufacturers, for the consumer companies, their message messages ultimately to … It’s to the end user, but there’s a intermediary being the professional that’s going to dispense these. They’re trying to talk to you, so I understand what you’re saying, and maybe what it is, is, I completely agree, it’s probably going to be more around influencers and around experts. I think that, where my mind’s going here is, there’s like two avenues.
Dave Kemp:
First of all, you got to educate and you got to really solicit the professionals and the experts and the influencers. You have to find a way in which you do that, and that’s probably where, like you said, you have the Doug Becks or the Dave Fabrys, I think the onus is on them to take this type of app, and anybody that’s in these leadership positions within these companies to be a mouthpiece for the company to say, here’s the new tech that we have. Not be salesy per se, but be very information rich so that you, as the professional can then … I mean, the more that we talk about this, I think the sweet spot would be building a community with your patients to say, look, every month, we’re going to be doing a Clubhouse where it’s talks with Dr. Dave, where you come on and I’m going to tell you about everything that I’ve learned this past month, about what’s new and available to you.
Dave Kemp:
We can have these live forums, where if you’re one of my patients, this could be another value add to being one of my patients, is that you get to be a part of this community, where we talk as a group whatever it might be. I think there’s a huge community play here that could be really interesting about again, the way that that funnels back up to the top is that I think you have to have … There has to be a concerted effort by any company that’s looking to push their product through here. It can’t be done by just the traditional features and benefits of a product. It’s got 16 hour battery life, or whatever.
Dave Kemp:
It’s got to be way more like talking as a conversation and saying like, here’s the really valuable things that go along with this device. Then that trickles down into, okay, you have all of the influential people that are actually dispensing or selling this product, and then they can form those communities and those discussions around this. That’s where my head’s going here is that, this could be a tremendous opportunity for any type of practice out there. Natalie’s nodding her head. I can totally see you making this a part of the community aspect to this and focusing a Clubhouse type reoccurring conversation that everybody can be a part of.
Dave Kemp:
If you’re my patient, these are going to be the kinds of things that you get to discuss. Even more importantly, you get to be a part of the conversation too.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
I’m going to just interject and say that the one product feature that everyone’s going to care about is battery life. I don’t know about you, Natalie, but my phone has been struggling. I have two sets of AirPods, thank goodness, because I have to switch those out. Natalie, I’d love to hear what you have to think too.
Natalie Phillips:
Yeah. You’re funny, because I actually have a case that has a charger on it, so I’m not going to have that problem. It’s interesting, and I just wanted to make a point that, when you look at what Angela, how she introduced herself, and everybody knows Angela as the APD guru, the one who is passionate about really making this awareness come out. There are a lot of entrepreneurs in audiology, but what I would suggest is to start thinking even slightly outside of the box. So, you heard Angela. Yes, APD, she’s got a support group, a course, and she’s got the Institute where she teaches masterclasses, and so you’re thinking, okay, well, Angela is going to pop up on Clubhouse, and it’s going to say APD or auditory processing, or processing, or something, right?
Natalie Phillips:
No, she is going just slightly outside of the box and saying, we’re going to talk about the music and your brain and how it relates to science. Who is she actually going to be speaking to? Well, people that are coming through that are going to scroll through those rooms, they’re going to be like, what? Music in the brain? I’m a musician, I’m going to join in that group. Or, I’m a teacher, I actually want to hear about what that’s going to be. Or, wait, music in the brain? I’m kind of a doctor. Even though I’m not an audiologist, I kind of want to hear what’s going on. It’s how you title your room, and just thinking slightly outside of the box, where you’re going to have that conversation, but you can always add audiology into it.
Natalie Phillips:
As audiologists are coming onto this platform, I really want you guys to challenge yourself to think just slightly outside of the box to open up this view for people of audiology that we’re going to really … I mean, audiologists are typing, I’m just so sorry, but you know what? And we have so much FOMO that we’re going to get on there and rule the waves there in our own little private group, but at the same time, we don’t want to be there to be a private group. We want to be there because we want to make sure people understand what we do.
Natalie Phillips:
Okay. I was in a group with Justin Guarini yesterday. I think somebody pulled me up, I joined a group, somebody pulled me up on stage. I ended up being a moderator, and he actually was the one that went through everything and made everybody introduce themselves. For some reason, sometimes I don’t start off with, I’m an audiologist. Sometimes I start off with, I’m a business owner, this is what I do, and then I’m like, Oh, and I’m … If audiology comes up, great. For some reason, I don’t know why, I just said, “Well, I’m an audiologist.” I said what I did and then I talked about some other businesses, and he immediately said, “Oh my gosh, I bow down to you because you guys are the ones, I’m a vocalist, I’m a musician, you guys are the ones that are helping us hear better if it’s an ear, nose and throat physician, with our vocal chords, things like that.”
Natalie Phillips:
It was crazy, but I was like, what? It’s one of those things where you can kind of enter in to adding audiology into how you look at how you’re going to get out on social media, but at the same time, it’s really not necessarily about that. You really want to, if you’re going to get on Clubhouse, and we are audiologists, I get that, but you’ve got to be able to look broadly enough to have conversations, to pull in people like musicians, or other physicians to spread the awareness, other tech people to spread the awareness of what we do.
Natalie Phillips:
I can see that this could be a really big platform for us to really get out there and get people knowing about what an audiologist does. That’s my 2 cents on that.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. I want to go all the way back to the beginning to what you said about how you went to that auto conference. I think that’s actually really representative of this app, where if you just know what you know then you don’t know what you don’t know. I think it’s extremely important for any professional that is looking to grow to really put yourself out there and go into a space that’s completely unrelated to what you’re doing, like a car conference. Because chances are they’re probably doing things that are translatable into your industry, into your experience, but that they’re thinking totally differently, and that’s what I love about … Really, that’s what I fell in love with Twitter about, and that’s why I think Clubhouse is really promising too, is that it exposes you to different ways of thinking.
Dave Kemp:
I think that that is a really important concept in a premise that people should be looking at and thinking, okay, what are some of these other industry people doing that, there are some parallels, but more or less, I’m just trying to understand how they’re trying to grow their personal brand or grow their business. I guarantee there’s going to be actionable things that you can walk away from that you’re just not really hearing in your space because it’s a novel concept to this.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
Absolutely. I completely agree. I also have to say that it’s really amazing to also just be in there to listen. I pick groups of people who don’t look like me. My first week on Clubhouse, January 6th happened, and I went into a room that was American, but Americans that didn’t look like me, and I listened for five hours without saying a thing. When would I get the opportunity to do that, and to actually hear life from another perspective? I think what we’re taking away from this, on this episode where we’re talking is, it’s important to speak, but it’s equally important to listen.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah. No, I completely agree with that. I mean, I think that, the other aspect of this that’s I think really intriguing is just how raw it is. Like you said, where you hop in a room on a day that’s a tragic day, and then you’re in a room full of people that are sharing their life experiences and all of … How else would you ever facilitate that experience? You’d have to be truly a fly on the wall. It’s novel. We’ve never really had this before, and so I think there’s a ton of potential around empathy and thinking differently about the way that these types of experiences are for other people. I guess this is probably a good segue into patients, because we’re talking about a group of people that are wearing a device that is a portal to this type of app.
Dave Kemp:
I say this type of app, because this is one of many. One of the things that I get so excited about with my podcast and my blog is the idea that there is a legitimate audio internet that is being built right now. There’s all kinds of different use cases and applications that are legitimately being built for our ears, and there’s no screen … I mean, there is a screen as an additive type thing, but it’s not necessary. I keep thinking, I’m like, this industry and the patients that populate it are sort of this secondary byproduct that gets to benefit from a lot of this stuff. I mean, you look at the average number of hearing aids that are sold in a given year, it’s about a hundredth of the amount of AirPods that are sold in a year.
Dave Kemp:
The consumer market is gigantic. The consumer market is the reason why Clubhouse is even being built because there’s an assumption now that there are hundreds of millions of people walking around with AirPods and the like in their ears. But oh, by the way, if you have hearing aids, you can take advantage of it all the same. I keep thinking like, this is a really interesting new aspect to the product offering and to the overall patient experience, that I really think is important that needs to be more of the conversation is to … I think there’s a real opportunity for professionals to make their patients aware that these kinds of things exist.
Dave Kemp:
In the same way that you show them, look, amplification is going to improve your quality of life for X, Y, and Z. Every professional, by and large, is really good at that aspect of the conversation. But I think there are new facets here that are equally interesting to a lot of people. If you tell somebody, you walk them through a lot of the different things that we’ve talked about today, there are things in there that are really compelling to certain people, that they might find really, really interesting. I think it needs to be mentioned that a lot of these people might not be exposed to those for a year, two years, maybe ever, to these kinds of things.
Dave Kemp:
I think that this is another opportunity that the professionals have is to, not necessarily say like, okay, we’re going to download Clubhouse, but just have it be part of the conversation, have podcasts, and audio books, and all the different things that you can do with your hearing aids today. Have that be a little bit more front and center, because I think you’re just doing yourself a disservice if you just ignore them and assume that they’ll understand these things on their own.
Natalie Phillips:
Yeah. I mean, I’m excited, but I’m also concerned as well. I’m excited because remember when Tunity TV came out and everybody was like, oh my gosh, this is cool thing. And I still talk about it. But we all know that when you’re wearing hearing aids or when you have a hearing loss, like I’ve sent invites to somebody, and I was like, oh man, he’s got a severe loss. I’m like, I’m not too sure he’s going to be able to follow as quickly without the visual aspect. That’s the part that makes me concerned, as well as I know that, even with our masks, there were mask programs that came out for hearing and hearing aids.
Natalie Phillips:
I’m hoping down the line, and I don’t know if this is something, where one tech company has to get together with Clubhouse or whatever it is. I’m hoping somewhere down the line, there might be some sort of audio streaming program, or profile that they could have for Clubhouse that would maximize hearing. We know Larry Guterman, who invented this app.
Dave Kemp:
SonicCloud.
Natalie Phillips:
Yeah, where you can do a hearing test and then it makes a hearing profile for you. Maybe it’s something where they get introduced to help our patients a little bit better. Maybe there’s some sort of algorithm that tech companies can work on, or manufacturers might even be something that they want to jump on to maximize this platform because this platform is optimized where you don’t have to use headphones, and in fact you shouldn’t, or a microphone because it makes you sound weird. They’ve optimized the platform where you actually do not need a microphone. I’m pretty sure, Angela, if I’m correct, even headphones, you can tell … Well, actually, no. Headphone’s not. It’s the microphone. It’s the headphone with the microphone.
Natalie Phillips:
You can have your AirPods on and be fine, which would mean the hearing aids. But it’s one of those things where I’m super excited to be able to add that into, hey, download this podcast, or listen to this podcast, or your book’s on tape, or here, let’s pull that up. But the two things that I see is that it’s very exclusive right now, which they’re opening it up, but it’s made for iPhone, and you’ve got to be sort of invited and sign up, and we’re seeing that in our professional world as well. I’m trying to get as many of people in as possible.
Natalie Phillips:
Then the hearing profiles for people who maybe the hearing aid itself doesn’t have that streaming algorithm or that profile that is optimized for them to hear the best. Those are the two concerns that I have down the line and looking ahead.
Dave Kemp:
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. I think that the broader trajectory is what I’m interested in, because you’re right, there’s obviously limitations. I don’t mean this to be something where it’s like tomorrow, you should … I think that this is indicative of a bigger trend, right? I do. I think this is part of a migration that the internet is undergoing in a broad capacity toward our ears. What’s exciting about that is again, I think that it is inclusive. I think there is work that needs to be done. Let’s just look at transcription and captioning. Just this year alone, we went from having all of these Google Meet and Microsoft Teams and all that, you had to pay in order to have live transcription.
Dave Kemp:
Now it’s free. In one year’s time, we’ve gone from everything, other than Zoom, has live transcription and live captioning. There’s going to be limitations, there’s going to be a lot of opportunity. I’m glad that you mentioned SonicCloud, because I do think that, as I’ve talked to Larry before about this idea of having a digital hearing aid for streaming is really intriguing. Being able to, for all of the audio that comes out of your phone, to be able to have a algorithm that basically that sound runs through and it’s tailored to your hearing loss, very, very intriguing. All of that’s to say, I fully agree with you, Natalie.
Dave Kemp:
I think that there’s limitations to it today, but I do think that, as time goes on, I think that the more marginalized groups, like people with hearing loss, there will be solutions that are layered on top of this in a digital environment. I’m hoping that they’re not like insurmountable limitations. I hope that this is a very inclusive and accessible type technology. That’s what gives me a lot of hope is that a lot of things that are very like digital tend to be. Anyway, that’s my thoughts there. Angela, what do you think? Do you have any thoughts on this?
Angela Loucks Alexander:
Well, I’m trying to do everything with intention. Part of me was thinking, what am I doing on this app where people who are going to be on the app are not going to have listening problems in general? They’re not going to be people who have auditory processing issues because it would be so frustrating. I’m not talking to those end users. I’m talking to professionals, I’m cross pollinating, I’m trying to learn things from other perspectives, but this is the one thing we haven’t talked about yet that I think is one of the most important keys about Clubhouse, and that’s building your team.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
On Clubhouse, you can find people like Natalie, who are social media experts, but aren’t as busy with all their own stuff to do. You can find people who want to interview you on their podcast. You can find people who know how to take your YouTube from zero to hero. For me, I’m there to build my team, I’m there to spread awareness, and I’m there to take in amazing information that I would never have learned otherwise. Let’s be honest with you, audio books from 2019 are not as relevant in 2021. What you are learning in Clubhouse is immediately relevant.
Dave Kemp:
Very, very interesting. Well, as we sort of wrap up here, I think this has been very informative. I mean, like I said, at the top of there, before we even started recording, you two know this space better than just about anybody I know in the industry. I’ve learned a lot from you too. I’m actually already thinking differently than how I was when I came into the conversation. It’s going to be an evolving thing, I think. I think it’s really exciting, because whether it’s Clubhouse or it’s something there along, I think it’s hitting a cord right now with this is new, this is novel, and there’s some really interesting aspects to this. As we wrap, closing thoughts on Clubhouse and what this kind of application represents to, not only the future of the professional, but the future of networking, team building, and the overall patient experience.
Natalie Phillips:
Yeah. I love what Angela said because it is so true. You are getting information real-time from people who are doing it right now and they’re willing to share. I’d like to leave with a couple of tips for people who are actually going to be jumping on Clubhouse, number one, making sure that when you get on, okay, this is super important, use your real name because you do not have a chance to change it. You have one chance to make an alias, and that’s about it. You can grab your handle, but make sure that you sign up with your real name.
Natalie Phillips:
If you decide that it’s Natalie Phillips, Dr. Natalie Phillips, whatever it is, stick with that, and then make sure your bio is really eye-catching. So, use emojis, use lines to separate. You really want people to be able to see what you do and make sure the first two lines are the best eye-catching, because when somebody goes to look at your profile, while you’re in a room, they’ll initially just see the first two lines and then make the next decision to look at your full profile. You want to make sure your first two lines are probably the most eye-catching to get them in.
Natalie Phillips:
Then when you jump into a room, do not freak out. Your mic is not on. I just wanted to put that out there, because I remember joining and I was like, everybody be quiet in my house. I’m getting on. And I’m like, wait, I don’t even think I’m on. So, your mic is not live until you get pulled up to the stage, and then immediately turn it off so that you’re just respectful. Do not worry when you jump into a room. You’re just listing, like Angela said, and you can pop in and out if you want to. I just wanted to leave that with people, that when you jump into a room, do not worry because your mic is not live.
Dave Kemp:
Angela.
Angela Loucks Alexander:
Also, to add to that, as soon as you are brought up on stage, your mic is hot, so do not flush the [crosstalk 00:43:21], if I’m totally honest with you. We haven’t really said the words yet, but Clubhouse is still in beta. It’s still being trialed. But what we’re already seeing with user engagement is that this is going to go off. We are at the beginning of what they call the S-curve and it hasn’t gone viral yet. I would like to personally think Natalie Phillips for talking to me about this before this has taken off. You have given me a really important seat at a very influential table, and I will always be grateful to you for that, and thanks, Dave Kemp, for having us on to talk about this further.
Dave Kemp:
Absolutely. Well, no, this has been such a great conversation. You two are really grabbing the bull by the horns and just running wild with this. I agree, I think that this is the start of something big. From everything I can tell, the people that are really, I think understanding the potential here, they’re really adamant that this is going to be a big deal, and I’m starting to see it too. If nothing else, I hope this conversation was informative and somewhat educational for other professionals to be thinking about this as just another aspect to all the different things that we talked about today, whether it be the way that you can find like-minded professionals, or the way that you can, yeah, talk to people in any walk of life.
Dave Kemp:
It’s just, there’s a lot of fascinating things about it. Before we hop, why don’t you to share your handles for Clubhouse so that we can find you on there?
Natalie Phillips:
Awesome. So, mine is just Dr. N, for Natalie, Phillips, P-H-I-L-L-I-P-S.
Dave Kemp:
Perfect, and Angela?
Angela Loucks Alexander:
I’m at APD Support. A as in apple, P as in Paul, D as in Delta. APD Support.
Dave Kemp:
Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you too so much. Thanks for everybody who tuned in here to the end, and we will chat with you next time. Cheers.
